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lack of fatness

#61
Phaidrus said:
No way I'm getting anywhere near such fat tones as Flabba Holt does playing the Ab, Bb and Gb of this bassline on the D string, although my Pbass is strung with a .070 D. Any suggestions?

My gear: Fender 2008 Am. Std. Pbass with PV63 pickup strung with 50-70-85-105 Dunlop flats. Flabba Holt is possibly playing his Steinberger on this track, don't know what strings he's using.

Click to expand...


I feel like I am missing something here. What is the other part of your gear?

How are you amplifying / listening to your bass -- an amp? headphone amp? are you recording on a laptop and listening to playback?

When I read this the first thing that came to my mind as a suggestion was EQ.

I'm not a regular in the strings forum, but I don't think it's an issue having to do with strings or cap values, but more like right hand technique and EQ... Just IMO and IME.
 
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#62
Phaidrus said:
Yes, it's a very rich tone. Interestingly he has the same rich full tone when playing live. Same tune, just the normal non-dub version. I want this tone!:)

Click to expand...


Definitely sounds like some seriously fine tuned compression and possibly a gate or sidechain at work there. And that much low end without mud indicates there’s very likely a HPF in the signal chain as well.
 
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#65
hennessybass said:
I feel like I am missing something here. What is the other part of your gear?

How are you amplifying / listening to your bass -- an amp? headphone amp? are you recording on a laptop and listening to playback?

When I read this the first thing that came to my mind as a suggestion was EQ.

I'm not a regular in the strings forum, but I don't think it's an issue having to do with strings or cap values, but more like right hand technique and EQ... Just IMO and IME.
Click to expand...

My rig: Markbass Little Mark Vintage head + Markbass NY212 cab. Playing along tracks or jamming with friends. Obviously I don't have Flabba touch and vibe but can sort of play and am at least aware of right hand technique theory. More experience or the consumption of some herb could arguably help but as far as I can tell there would still be some fatness lacking in my tone. So I suspect it may have something to do with gear and/or EQing with the help of some extra gear I currently don't own, like HPF, compressor, booster, an active J-type bass, etc. My other Pbass (with V-Mod pickup), strung with rounds for funk and jazz stuff, sounds just fine and I can dial the appropriate tone easily.
 
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#68
DJ Bebop said:
You can dial the appropriate tone easily for jazz or for reggae?
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For funk and some jazz fusion type tunes, say from Jamiroquai to the Barney Miller theme and some easy to play Jaco in between. Or some Norman Watt-Roy basslines. Currently strung with Pyramid pure nickel roundwound strings. But this type of tone has always been relatively easy for me to attain. The fatness of dub is the issue...
 
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#70
Phaidrus said:
I even strung it with a custom string set for thicker D and G strings
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I'm surprised that no one has commented on this, which perhaps only indicates that I'm a clueless idiot. So with that in mind....

Thicker strings will be strings that are under greater tension. Perhaps these particular strings when under greater tension produce overtones in areas you are not interested - a more nervy sound, not a mellow one.

When I put flats on a bass that was in desperate need of some real depth of tone, I chose 45-60-80-105 ie the A and D were a step lighter than my usual 45-65-85-105. This brought the weight of tone of those two strings in line with the E, which previously had been the only string making a satisfying tone.
 
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#71
Ricky Rioli said:
I'm surprised that no one has commented on this, which perhaps only indicates that I'm a clueless idiot. So with that in mind....

Thicker strings will be strings that are under greater tension. Perhaps these particular strings when under greater tension produce overtones in areas you are not interested - a more nervy sound, not a mellow one.

When I put flats on a bass that was in desperate need of some real depth of tone, I chose 45-60-80-105 ie the A and D were a step lighter than my usual 45-65-85-105. This brought the weight of tone of those two strings in line with the E, which previously had been the only string making a satisfying tone.
Click to expand...

@bdplaid
@Jay2U

Interesting comment. I've always had the impression that thicker strings produce a thicker fuller tone and accordingly replaced the .045 G and .065 D of the standard Dunlop flats set with the .050 G and .070 D from the heavy set. They do indeed sound fuller, to my ears. But still not half as full as Flabba's, which I have no idea what brand or gauge they are. As someone mentioned, Dunlop flats are not the most bassy flats around and this is true. I have a Pyramid Gold flatwound set (custom gauge 50-70-85-105) in my drawer, which should be deeper/fuller sounding, so I may put them on at some point.
 
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#73
Have you tried the LaBella Deep Talkin Flats?
I've had them on my reggae bass for about a year and they turned out great, but then I sold that bass.

And a word on your gear: My experience with Markbass is that they sound very direct. The lows always came across, well, exactly like they left the bass.

With your gear, I would start out as follows:
Set the amp more or less flat, with just a little boost in the bass department.
Turn that tweeter down.
Then play with a very soft touch and turn the amp so high, that playing like that is easily loud enough.
Now you need either a VERY careful and controlled playstyle or something that will protect bystanders should you pluck a note hard. I have no experience with the limiter on that amp, but it could do the trick. If not, a compressor would come in handy. I'd either pick one that is good at limiting like the Keeley Bassist or one that adds a bit of warmth and fatness like the Cali76.
Since we're doing pedals already, it would not hurt to get a HPF as well - like the one Broughton does - and it is not much difference if you use 2 or 3 pedals, so you might as well get a premp pedal with the Alembic/Fender tonestack. There is a variety on the market, the SushiBox FX Underground Accelerator or the AMT Bricks A-Bass are what come to mind as pedals that are still in production and relatively cheap for what they do.
Add a tuner of your choice and you have enough to fill up a Pedaltrain Nano ;-)
 
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#75
Phaidrus said:
@bdplaid
@Jay2U

Interesting comment. I've always had the impression that thicker strings produce a thicker fuller tone and accordingly replaced the .045 G and .065 D of the standard Dunlop flats set with the .050 G and .070 D from the heavy set. They do indeed sound fuller, to my ears. But still not half as full as Flabba's, which I have no idea what brand or gauge they are. As someone mentioned, Dunlop flats are not the most bassy flats around and this is true. I have a Pyramid Gold flatwound set (custom gauge 50-70-85-105) in my drawer, which should be deeper/fuller sounding, so I may put them on at some point.
Click to expand...

I simply compared several strings with varying diameter and tension. All were D'addarios on the same bass, next to each other. I recorded the output and compared the waves, using Audacity. The fatter strings produced more harmonics, sounding less fat.
StringTensionCompared.jpg
 
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#76
IDK... I had a MarkBass amp and a pair of Ashdown 15" cabs (way back), and I felt like there were some real holes in the freq response. Certain notes on certain strings would just kind of disappear. I think it might have been the cabs - peaks and valleys in the response.

I like the suggestion from @el murdoque of setting the amp pretty flat, really running the volume way up, so that you have to play with a very light touch. That usually brings out the fatness IME.

Will also share this: This is an image from the AMP BH-420 manual. Great amp that has a lot of DNA from the Acoustic 360, and was the inspiration for many amps that came after. It has a great 4 band semi-parametric EQ section. The manual includes this graphic - basically what is the fundamental frequency going on across the fretboard.

Ab, Bb, and Gb on the D string -- I'd be looking for a little boost around 100hz.

X6HVds_iUlwe0g5-CfMoBQn1763VLM64ERvDZomNh-vtwS7A5epGSv_kqXQeMZBguw8_9qCQ=w938-h321-no?authuser=0.jpg
 
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#77
hennessybass said:
IDK... I had a MarkBass amp and a pair of Ashdown 15" cabs (way back), and I felt like there were some real holes in the freq response. Certain notes on certain strings would just kind of disappear. I think it might have been the cabs - peaks and valleys in the response.

I like the suggestion from @el murdoque of setting the amp pretty flat, really running the volume way up, so that you have to play with a very light touch. That usually brings out the fatness IME.

Will also share this: This is an image from the AMP BH-420 manual. Great amp that has a lot of DNA from the Acoustic 360, and was the inspiration for many amps that came after. It has a great 4 band semi-parametric EQ section. The manual includes this graphic - basically what is the fundamental frequency going on across the fretboard.

Ab, Bb, and Gb on the D string -- I'd be looking for a little boost around 100hz.

View attachment 4493586
Click to expand...

@Jay2U

Thanks for the input! Both graphs/charts are very interesting and quite informative. I should perhaps get hold of a lighter set of strings and try it out. As of boosting around 100Hz, the center frequency of the LOWS on my amp is 68Hz and then the LOW MIDS have a center frequency of 400Hz, so I can't really be precise enough. Without some extra EQ device I can only boost lower than what seems to need boosting.
 
#78
Phaidrus said:
@Jay2U

Thanks for the input! Both graphs/charts are very interesting and quite informative. I should perhaps get hold of a lighter set of strings and try it out. As of boosting around 100Hz, the center frequency of the LOWS on my amp is 68Hz and then the LOW MIDS have a center frequency of 400Hz, so I can't really be precise enough. Without some extra EQ device I can only boost lower than what seems to need boosting.
Click to expand...

Remember that when you cut EQ in one area you are, in a way, boosting in another. Seems counterintuitive, but if you cut your low, and low mid, you might get a nice bump in that region that you want.

Not sure how the MarkBass stuff works, but on many amps, when you cut freq it seems like you loose volume. Well, keep the master way up (like all the way), with just a little gain. As you cut bass and low mid you will seem to loose volume -- then use the gain control to makeup the lost volume.

Might be worth a try.
 
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#80
Phaidrus said:
In this context, what is the (apparently advantageous) tone profile of the Jbass compared to the Pbass?
Click to expand...
Well Fat Joe has the answers.

Jazz bass mids
8DNr.gif

Lean back!

P bass mids
fat-joe-all-the-way-up.gif

All the way up!

:)

A perceived low-end boost from the mid-scoop from the jazz-type pickup arrangement that makes da bass sound deep.

None really, it's just how you use it!
 
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