lacking presence

[endsender]

I play a 2002 Fender Jazz with flat wounds. I use an Ampeg 2x10 combo with an Aguilar compression pedal.

The sound guy for my wedding/bar/cover band has been complaining that my bass lacks "presence". Low end is no problem, but anything over the D/D#/E on the A string loses punch. I can hear it myself... there's not a lot of attack and it just kinda dies in the mix.

I know some of it is a result of my flat wounds, and my amp only has a 3-band EQ. Wondering if anyone has any advice for this problem?

Thanks!

 

[IronLung1986]

I'd take out the compression pedal as an initial troubleshooting step.

 

[JRA]

"presence" is generally associated with higher frequencies and it's probably something which you have successfully 'dialed out' of your palette. i disagree that the compressor is a problem --- in and of itself.

sometimes you have to bite the bullet and change things up: i'm guessing he wants more definition so that he can make it have more "presence." so, mix in more mids and treble. (your on-board EQ.) you won't like it but he will. better yet: let him EQ your amp and just play that way for a gig (or a set) while he makes you sound great out front...then compromise with each other until you are simpatico. if the band doesn't sound as good as it can --- because of the bass mud! --- everything sucks and you have no 'signature sound'. i know you don't want to do anything like that, but it's all i got and the best i can do! (fortunately, it's pretty easy stuff. )

good luck!

 

[Rib 13]

I play a 2002 Fender Jazz with flat wounds. .....

I know some of it is a result of my flat wounds

thats most of it right there. If you dont want to use roundwounds, at least use pressurewounds or Brite Flats....and changing your strings often will also help immensely (To compare, I use roundwounds and change them every 25 hours/4 or5 gigs or earlier if they lose a lot of life earlier...yes, i spend a lot of money on strings)

and my amp only has a 3-band EQ. Wondering if anyone has any advice for this problem?

Thanks!

Unless your amp color and speaker-breakup is part of your sound (Im assuming that this isnt part of your sound like in any typical wedding/bar/cover band) then your soundman should take a direct line from you in a PRE position (not POST - thats sending the amp's pre to your soundman) or a direct box. If he already does that, then start with strings first...

 

[lz4005]

I play a 2002 Fender Jazz with flat wounds. I use an Ampeg 2x10 combo with an Aguilar compression pedal.

The sound guy for my wedding/bar/cover band has been complaining that my bass lacks "presence". Low end is no problem, but anything over the D/D#/E on the A string loses punch. I can hear it myself... there's not a lot of attack and it just kinda dies in the mix.

I know some of it is a result of my flat wounds, and my amp only has a 3-band EQ. Wondering if anyone has any advice for this problem?

First things first, you haven't given enough information for anyone to give you useful advice.

Unless we know what all the knob settings on all parts of your rig are, and exactly how your signal is getting to the PA, everything will just be a guess.

Also helpful would be how old your strings are, if you're using a pick or fingers and where between the neck and bridge you usually have your right hand. All of those things can contribute to a lack of "presence" in a tone.

 

[mojomike001]

If you’re like me and you prefer the feel of flatwound strings, you might want to try the Ernie Ball Cobalt flats. They are nearly as bright as roundwounds but they’re actually flats.

 

[endsender]

First things first, you haven't given enough information for anyone to give you useful advice.

Unless we know what all the knob settings on all parts of your rig are, and exactly how your signal is getting to the PA, everything will just be a guess.

Also helpful would be how old your strings are, if you're using a pick or fingers and where between the neck and bridge you usually have your right hand. All of those things can contribute to a lack of "presence" in a tone.

Yeah, absolutely. I pretty much run the EQ at 12-o'clock (5 out of 10) on all three bands. Lately, I've been raising the mids to about 7.5 and treble to 6 to help with the presence issue... this admittedly occasionally shines a light on some technique problems (like hitting a string too hard and getting a pop). I unfortunately am ignorant about compression... where I have it set now helps me keep a more consistent dynamic level, otherwise the sound is unchanged to my ears.

Strings are a couple months old... probably have seven or eight 4-hour gigs on them.

Sound guy takes an XLR lineout from the amp.

I play with fingers and usually am slightly behind the neck pickup (toward the bridge). Lately, I've been moving to the bridge pickup to try to get a little more attack when I'm really noticing my part getting buried.

 

[micguy]

As a round wounds only guy (OK I have some pressurewounds on one bass), I'd say a good set of rounds is what you're searching for.

 

[lz4005]

Strings are a couple months old... probably have seven or eight 4-hour gigs on them.
Sound guy takes an XLR lineout from the amp.

Ok. We're getting much closer, and already eliminating some things.
Sounds like the strings shouldn't be dead, as long as they were installed correctly. That's good.
If the problem is the same with and without the compressor, that eliminates that as well.

We still need a little more, though.
Is the line out pre or post EQ?
What are the knob settings on the bass?

 

[48thStreetCustom]

Different strings, 3 band active electronics, a preamp pedal like a sansamp or an EP booster... There could be a lot of solutions.

You might want to look at a sweepable mid, either in your amp or in a 3 band active preamp. It helps me to picture graphic EQ like an old 80s stereo to explain it. The mid control lets you boost or cut the mids and the mid sweep control lets you move that left or right on that graphic EQ.

Here's an example of sweepable mids:

 

[MattZilla]

complaining that my bass lacks "presence". Low end is no problem, but anything over the D/D#/E on the A string loses punch.

guys. read the whole post.



In before hpf recommendation.

 

[jd56hawk]

I play a 2002 Fender Jazz with flat wounds. I use an Ampeg 2x10 combo with an Aguilar compression pedal.

The sound guy for my wedding/bar/cover band has been complaining that my bass lacks "presence". Low end is no problem, but anything over the D/D#/E on the A string loses punch. I can hear it myself... there's not a lot of attack and it just kinda dies in the mix.

I know some of it is a result of my flat wounds, and my amp only has a 3-band EQ. Wondering if anyone has any advice for this problem?

Thanks!

No need to change your strings. $50 new but I see used ones for half that.

 

[endsender]

Ok. We're getting much closer, and already eliminating some things.
Sounds like the strings shouldn't be dead, as long as they were installed correctly. That's good.
If the problem is the same with and without the compressor, that eliminates that as well.

We still need a little more, though.
Is the line out pre or post EQ?
What are the knob settings on the bass?

The line is post EQ... whatever I adjust on my amp goes out to the PA.

All knobs are up 100% on my bass. I sometimes have enjoyed going with just the bridge pickup... but that combined with my higher-than-normal mids and treb on my amp make it start to sound bad. So I usually go full with all three knobs.

 

[kurth83]

I don't think the word presence describes the issue, you described missing thump, or attack.

My understanding is compressors can be used to either enhance or smooth out attacks.

And lower notes are generally louder than higher ones so whatever the compressor is doing will be more pronounced down low. HPF can alleviate this if it precedes the compressor.

I don't use mine for attack, I use it to increase sustain and smooth out note volumes.

Some compressors don't really allow for much attack delay either.

So definitely try W/O the compressor.

 

[Rip Van Dan]

I play a 2002 Fender Jazz with flat wounds. I use an Ampeg 2x10 combo with an Aguilar compression pedal.

The sound guy for my wedding/bar/cover band has been complaining that my bass lacks "presence". Low end is no problem, but anything over the D/D#/E on the A string loses punch. I can hear it myself... there's not a lot of attack and it just kinda dies in the mix.

I know some of it is a result of my flat wounds, and my amp only has a 3-band EQ. Wondering if anyone has any advice for this problem?

Thanks!

Drop the bass EQ a click or two below flat to get rid of that indistinct rumble that adds nothing to your "presence", and add some mids. The low-mids in the 250-300Hz range will give you that distinction you need plus that thump in the chest if you can dial some of those in. If you only have a 3-band EQ, check to see if you have a "mid-shift" button. If so, set it to the low-mids, not the high mids.

Further, I would ditch the compressor unless you're need it to protect your speakers. Reason for that is that the more it compresses, the less attack you get because it's turning it into sustain. That's what a compressor does. It takes those momentary spikes from the attack at the beginning of the note and convert most of that energy into sustain. Lose your attack and you lose your presence. So I'd be very careful with using much compression. If you have a sound guy running a board, let him add whatever compression he wants at the board. He's out there where he hears the mix the best. At least try it out with the compressor off.

 

[lz4005]

The line is post EQ... whatever I adjust on my amp goes out to the PA.

All knobs are up 100% on my bass. I sometimes have enjoyed going with just the bridge pickup... but that combined with my higher-than-normal mids and treb on my amp make it start to sound bad. So I usually go full with all three knobs.

Try using just the neck pickup. Both at 100% can easily get muddy.

And double check that it really does sound the same without the compressor. The comp shouldn't be the issue, since it is only above a certain frequency, but still good to make sure.

 

[Stumbo]

The line is post EQ... whatever I adjust on my amp goes out to the PA.

All knobs are up 100% on my bass. I sometimes have enjoyed going with just the bridge pickup... but that combined with my higher-than-normal mids and treb on my amp make it start to sound bad. So I usually go full with all three knobs.

Turning up the amp eq. all the way, IME, is not the best method to get good tone. Try turning the amp controls to 9 o'clock and set the level with the volume control. Take out the compressor until you get your eq. dialed in. Also get your rig up on a stand, off the stage.

I also suggest an HPF to tighten up the low end and cut the sub-sonic mud out of your rig.​

How you sit in the mix is more important than just blindly turning the eq. knobs. Do you have a long cord or wireless so you can hear yourself in the mix? and make adjustments.

OR, probably more productive and quicker solution is to run your rig pre-eq, let the sound person dial it in for the mix, especially since you are unable to dial in a satisfactory tone yet. Why screw up the band mix. Let your amp be a monitor for you.

 

[basso_profundo]

FWIW, I play a Jazz with old Rotosound 77s (on the brighter side of flats, but they are well worn).

I'd suggest getting a decent EQ in your signal chain that gives you a lot of options in the mid frequencies. Ideally something that has both Hi-Mid and Low-Mid controls and/or a lot of bands on a graphic EQ. Once you have that, you should be able to push the right mids up for the band mix. Note that what sounds good during solo practice might not be what sounds best in the band mix.

Personally I run a Tech21 QStrip, which has two parametric Mid frequency controls that I use to help get my signal right in the mix. It also has a HPF that cuts super low frequencies that compete/interfere with the drums, and frees up my amp to push more frequencies that matter.

 

[Mantis Tobaggan]

Make sure the d and g string are the correct height on your p bass

 

[saabfender]

I’m a Jazz Bass player who knows what you are talking about. My first bass, a 75 Jazz with a maple neck, had this exact problem. Being young and inexperienced, I thought it was normal. Then I played a P Bass and found out otherwise.

This issue is largely the single coil pickups. Something like the Noiseless pickups I’ve found to be helpful - Any Different pickups than what came in it.

As far as corrective equalization, you need to cut the lows and pull back on the very bottom. That’s well-represented already. You are trying to make the whole guitar even across its entire range.