Lakland Quality debates...REALLY?!?!

[Billy Low]

Once again, I think the point is being missed. I'm done after this and you guys can have at it as you will.

I do not feel, and never felt that the Lakland Skyline product is the greatest thing to happen to the bass playing world.

I had to vent because I was sick of hearing folks cry and complain about DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY between THE SAME PRODUCT. These complaints are coming strictly from speculation; folks are injecting differences that are not there.

What most of you do not know (with the exception of two or three folks that may have read the thread) is that I was a "fly on the wall" of sorts during the changes that took place. Like I said before, I am not just a rabid fanboy. I know what I speak of, not from conjecture, but first hand experience.

Once again, my rant was due to individuals making comments about "changes" to the Lakland product, not complaints about the Lakland product. "Changes" that didn't exist, and even gave reasons for these changes. Several of these people were people in positions who should NOT be doing so. I'm not speaking of just you regular consumer (even though that was getting a bit irritating). There are retailers, and dealers spewing this mess (and yes, they read TB), AND THAT'S where things get too far.

You don't dig the Lakland, cool with me. It's not everybody's cup of tea. Please enjoy whatever brand you like, and I mean that with the utmost of sincerity. Hell, out of the 15 basses I own only 4 of them are Laklands....sooooo...I must like other brands too!

And yes, two of my Skylines are heavy too...and the guys down at LAKLAND have heard me complain about them...several times..LOL!

So as you see, It's not about me taking the Lakland brand too seriously, its about me taking the integrity of others statements towards a small business owner seriously.

 

[Musicman20]

Don't get me wrong, I was hoping that the product would improve over the last few years. I still wish I had an early JO5 or DJ5 with the outsourced pups.

 

[Billy Low]

That's really funny. Brian was a major skeptic when I ordered it. In fact, I had to work directly with Pat to get it painted that color. When it got back to Chicago, I think some minds changed. It turned out much better than I envisioned. It takes me back to the '50s, when many drug stores had lunch counters with those white pearloid Formica countertops, pink and turquoise naugahyde-upholstered stools, polished aluminum edging, chrome malt machines, and maple trim. I can even still taste those hamburgers.

None of the guys could remember the exact color pink your bass was. There was a mild debate between whether or not it was Mary Kay Pink or shell Pink. Kirk said it was neither, but thought it was too rich for shell pink. I called Pat and he couldn't remember! Don't know why, but nobody asked Brian!!! LOL!!!

What exact color of pink is that thing?!?! LOL!

 

[roadkill2309]

None of the guys could remember the exact color pink your bass was. There was a mild debate between whether or not it was Mary Kay Pink or shell Pink. Kirk said it was neither, but thought it was too rich for shell pink. I called Pat and he couldn't remember! Don't know why, but nobody asked Brian!!! LOL!!!

What exact color of pink is that thing?!?! LOL!

Pepto-effin'-Bismol.

I want that bass.

 

[Billy Low]

My Korean Skyline had me putting electrical tape over the logo. If Dan was still with Lakland, there's no way I'd own one of their basses today. Generally, I think the skylines can be indicative of the high quality coming out of many Asian factories today, but there's an ocean of difference between Lakland building a bass in Chicago and Lakland finishing off one made by a third party in a manufacturing plant. I find that the Skyline prices tend to be on the high side for Far East, factory-produced basses, and I wouldn't let anyone I like buy one sight-unseen.

My Indo 55-02 is a *very* nice bass, but it ain't better than my 2008 Fender. It *is* a lot nicer than some earlier Fenders I've played, but I tend to save my adulation for Laklands *made* by Lakland. I've noticed a huge difference in fit and finish.

Please understand that Dan was the owner when the Skyline and Shoreline series were established, as well as when the Skyline series began production in Indonesia. Unlike most companies the move to Indonesia was not a cost "cutting" move. The fact was that the main factory was closing in Korea was closing and the other factory had skyrocketed their prices. So instead of jacking of the prices of the instruments, Dan stayed with the same manufacturer and changed locations.

Yes, there is quite a difference between the Skyline series and the US series. No denials there...from ANYONE!

 

[Itzayana]

I don't know about Lakland but I will say that in my opinion most all products made in Korea are better quality than most all products made in Indonesia.
Just as most watches made in Switzerland are much better quality than watches made in India.
The only reason a company like Lakland makes a move from Korea to Indonesia is for cheaper (less qualified) labor and for fewer environmental restrictions.

These actions do not translate to lower prices for the consumer. They are simply a way for a manufacturer to exploit profit margin potential.

 

[drTSTingray]

I don't understand why anyone would raise a true quality control issue on a forum and not with the manufacturer/dealer. Many manufacturers pride themselves on their after sales service - why not raise issues with them, and then on here if you don't get a satisfactory result?

I have read threads on here about american made instruments of a famous manufacturer being delivered with loose screws (lots of them) and faulty solder etc - once again, what was the dealer up and why did they accept it in the first place? What has the manufacturer and dealer said. I would much prefer to hear people talking about such things than simply griping - if the manufacturer can't deliver the equipment in a fit manner and won't put it right or is inaccessible, then that is a far bigger issue. Are there a lot of new basses out there that people have had to fix themselves?

None of this is directed particularly at Lakland, more at the whole question of the point of raising quality control issues in a 3rd party forum (if they haven't already been taken up with the manufacturer).

I have played a couple of Lakland basses and they were great (both Skyline 55-01s). One was super light for a natural finish 5 er.

 

[sigmafloyd]

Once again, I think the point is being missed. I'm done after this and you guys can have at it as you will.

I do not feel, and never felt that the Lakland Skyline product is the greatest thing to happen to the bass playing world.

I had to vent because I was sick of hearing folks cry and complain about DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY between THE SAME PRODUCT. These complaints are coming strictly from speculation; folks are injecting differences that are not there.

What most of you do not know (with the exception of two or three folks that may have read the thread) is that I was a "fly on the wall" of sorts during the changes that took place. Like I said before, I am not just a rabid fanboy. I know what I speak of, not from conjecture, but first hand experience.

Once again, my rant was due to individuals making comments about "changes" to the Lakland product, not complaints about the Lakland product. "Changes" that didn't exist, and even gave reasons for these changes. Several of these people were people in positions who should NOT be doing so. I'm not speaking of just you regular consumer (even though that was getting a bit irritating). There are retailers, and dealers spewing this mess (and yes, they read TB), AND THAT'S where things get too far.

You don't dig the Lakland, cool with me. It's not everybody's cup of tea. Please enjoy whatever brand you like, and I mean that with the utmost of sincerity. Hell, out of the 15 basses I own only 4 of them are Laklands....sooooo...I must like other brands too!

And yes, two of my Skylines are heavy too...and the guys down at LAKLAND have heard me complain about them...several times..LOL!

So as you see, It's not about me taking the Lakland brand too seriously, its about me taking the integrity of others statements towards a small business owner seriously.

The public's perception is one of the hardest things to deal with as a small business.

It's kind of ironic when you think about it. The perceived downshift in Fender quality (thanks to several business changes) was what opened the door for the Sadowskys, Laklands (and Jackson/Kramer's) of the world to basically step in and provide the same product with better quality control and attention to detail.

I know you were talking about CHANGES in the skyline, not critisizm of the line itself, but I think their position in the marketplace magnifies even slight QC problems. It's a foreign made instrument competing at or near the same price point as US Fenders (of which quality control has been 'perceived' to have gone up in recent years). With the amount of Fenders on the market, you can pick up a decent American Standard P or J used for less than $800. That's hard to compete with.

So, has the quality in the Skylines dropped? Maybe not. But with Fender QC going up maybe people are starting to be more critical. When you're filling a gap in the market (i.e. Fender quality control) and that gap closes, it makes it increasingly hard to compete.

I find Lakland puzzling and I think they spread themselves too thin. Their flagship model, the 44-9x, their only somewhat original design (maybe the decade as well), is nothing like all the other basses. So at the same time they are trying to be original as well as trying to offer a 'better fender'. Companies like Fodera are clearly into focusing on a high-end, mostly unique product line. Companies like Sadowsky are focused on doing the 'better fender' thing really well. I find Lakland, in trying to do both (and then having a 2nd tier 'budget' line as well) lacking a bit in it's own identity.

 

[roadkill2309]

The public's perception is one of the hardest things to deal with as a small business.

It's kind of ironic when you think about it. The perceived downshift in Fender quality (thanks to several business changes) was what opened the door for the Sadowskys, Laklands (and Jackson/Kramer's) of the world to basically step in and provide the same product with better quality control and attention to detail.

I know you were talking about CHANGES in the skyline, not critisizm of the line itself, but I think their position in the marketplace magnifies even slight QC problems. It's a foreign made instrument competing at or near the same price point as US Fenders (of which quality control has been 'perceived' to have gone up in recent years). With the amount of Fenders on the market, you can pick up a decent American Standard P or J used for less than $800. That's hard to compete with.

So, has the quality in the Skylines dropped? Maybe not. But with Fender QC going up maybe people are starting to be more critical. When you're filling a gap in the market (i.e. Fender quality control) and that gap closes, it makes it increasingly hard to compete.

I find Lakland puzzling and I think they spread themselves too thin. Their flagship model, the 44-9x, their only somewhat original design (maybe the decade as well), is nothing like all the other basses. So at the same time they are trying to be original as well as trying to offer a 'better fender'. Companies like Fodera are clearly into focusing on a high-end, mostly unique product line. Companies like Sadowsky are focused on doing the 'better fender' thing really well. I find Lakland, in trying to do both (and then having a 2nd tier 'budget' line as well) lacking a bit in it's own identity.

Good post. Though in fairness, I think that offering a foreign-made, budget line alongside the US product is almost a cultural imperative in bass-maker land these days.

 

[Artobass]

I have enjoyed most every lakeland I have played and think they are pretty good basses. What I don't seem to understand is people that seem to love these basses so much tend to be very defensive and or willing to bash other brands for the sake of their own bass (Lakeland). I'm not saying every Lakeland owner does this but there seems to be a group of TB'ers that do. I've seen this more so in other threads as well. I understand loving your bass and willing to defend the manufactures reputation. Don't get me wrong here..I think Lakelands are very good basses as are many others. They are simply not as good as some people think they are.

 

[boristhespider9]

There is nothing that feels a great as a Lakland USA, however.

 

[NWB]

Could the indonesian been the cat?

No. I specifically stated that the Lakland was Indonesian and not the cat. The cat was a Russian Blue. Or was the bass Russian???

Or was it a blue bass????

These sort of details are very, very, highly important to the thread.





Or not....

 

[GregC]

I've played 7-8 Skylines. All of them very poor QC'd, very heavy, with bad paint jobs and misaligned pups/bridges.

The weight was consistent...consistently high!

So they were as heavy as a typical Musicman?

I've probably played ten times that many Skylines, and your experience is waaaay out of the norm.

 

[GregC]

Vic Serbe and I recently had the pleasure of touring the current Lakland facility in Chicago and talking to John, Bo, Leo and the gang about how they make basses - both the USA and Skyline models. I was extremely impressed with both operations. They run a tight ship, and are sinking a ton of money into that company. The whole crew is very much dedicated to making their basses even better and it definitely shows.

Of course, the real proof comes when you play the instruments, and as much as I love, love, LOVE! my Korean Skyline DJ4, I am equally enamored with my Indo Skyline "Duck Dunn."

We'll have the factory tour and a Skyline DJ5 review for y'all in issue #9, which should be out in October.

Sweet! Love the mag (and Lakland), Tom, so I'm really stoked to see the articles.

 

[GregC]

I find Lakland puzzling and I think they spread themselves too thin. Their flagship model, the 44-9x, their only somewhat original design (maybe the decade as well), is nothing like all the other basses. So at the same time they are trying to be original as well as trying to offer a 'better fender'. Companies like Fodera are clearly into focusing on a high-end, mostly unique product line. Companies like Sadowsky are focused on doing the 'better fender' thing really well. I find Lakland, in trying to do both (and then having a 2nd tier 'budget' line as well) lacking a bit in it's own identity.

I actually like the diverse lineup quite a bit, but to each his own. To me, they've got three original designs right now--the 94/02, the Decade and the Hollowbody (not counting the discontinued Scheff). And three "better Fenders"--Js (-60, DJ and -AJ), split-coil Ps and single-coil Ps.

 

[kellyrojo]

Just got my first laky--- an 01 with some modified electronics for a bargain price and I have to say it is built just as well as my US GNL. While I find this thread to be pretty dumb and redundant, I am really digging my new skyline and I am more than impressed with its craftsmanship

 

[Mrfstop]

I actually like the diverse lineup quite a bit, but to each his own. To me, they've got three original designs right now--the 94/02, the Decade and the Hollowbody (not counting the discontinued Scheff). And three "better Fenders"--Js (-60, DJ and -AJ), split-coil Ps and single-coil Ps.

Well I can say that their 3 original designs are flat out AMAZING!!
Make that 4 if you count the Scheff...
I have all 4.
I currently own a USA Scheff...a USA 44-07 ( a 44-94 with chi sonic buckers from factory!).... a USA Hollowbody with factory loaded Darkstars.........And HAD a USA Decade which I just let go of 2 weeks ago sadly.

All of these mentioned basses are the creme of the crop to my eyes, hands and ears.
The build quality is second to none on these USA basses I have.
The necks play like buttah!
These are pretty much on par with the NYC Sadowskys I have played in the past and with the US Alembics I still currently own.
For a good deal less$$$, great value for the money!

As far as Skylines go.
I have owned 3 of those and sold all 3.
I might have been a bit biased and spoiled by owning the USA Laklands.
The Skylines were nice basses, But my advice would be to save the extra $700 to a grand more and buy a minty USA Lakland instead.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I have 2 USA Laklands and they are the best. I currently own 1 Skyline and I love it too, it's great.

Sometimes I like having a 'cheaper' (less expensive) bass for certain gigs (ie: fly dates), but my US Osborn is my go-to bass for 90% of the work I do.

That all being said, I wouldn't care if my Skyline was Korean or Indo. If it's good, it's good. If I ever buy another Skyline, the country of origin will not influence my decision.

 

[Faraday]

Once again, I think the point is being missed. I'm done after this and you guys can have at it as you will.

I do not feel, and never felt that the Lakland Skyline product is the greatest thing to happen to the bass playing world.

I had to vent because I was sick of hearing folks cry and complain about DIFFERENCE IN QUALITY between THE SAME PRODUCT. These complaints are coming strictly from speculation; folks are injecting differences that are not there.

What most of you do not know (with the exception of two or three folks that may have read the thread) is that I was a "fly on the wall" of sorts during the changes that took place. Like I said before, I am not just a rabid fanboy. I know what I speak of, not from conjecture, but first hand experience.

Once again, my rant was due to individuals making comments about "changes" to the Lakland product, not complaints about the Lakland product. "Changes" that didn't exist, and even gave reasons for these changes. Several of these people were people in positions who should NOT be doing so. I'm not speaking of just you regular consumer (even though that was getting a bit irritating). There are retailers, and dealers spewing this mess (and yes, they read TB), AND THAT'S where things get too far.

You don't dig the Lakland, cool with me. It's not everybody's cup of tea. Please enjoy whatever brand you like, and I mean that with the utmost of sincerity. Hell, out of the 15 basses I own only 4 of them are Laklands....sooooo...I must like other brands too!

And yes, two of my Skylines are heavy too...and the guys down at LAKLAND have heard me complain about them...several times..LOL!

So as you see, It's not about me taking the Lakland brand too seriously, its about me taking the integrity of others statements towards a small business owner seriously.

Your claim of not being a fanboy and of not taking criticism of Lakland too seriously rings hollow based on your repeated posts. You claim you know the true facts and anyone who disagrees about Korea-Indonesia is wrong and lacks integrity because you know better and only you and people who agree with have integrity.

I guess we either accept that you are the dispassionate supreme authority with integrity and the dissenters are wrong and lack your integrity or we think you are a sensitive fanboy.

 

[basspraiser]

well....only about 1/3 true....Dan was MUCH more into Music Man basses...OK still Leo Fender products but "technically" not Fender (with a capital F).....sorry to get technical...

interesting to read the posts here for sure...

Sounds like somebody takes their Lakland a little too seriously...

As far as all the arguments go I would still say 3/5 QC "arguments" are about Fender not Lakland... You might remember them as the company that started Lakland...