Last night's backline.......not impressed.......

[ThisBass]

Ok, had a gig, last night, at a well known venue in Richmond, VA. This was my backline.
Link Removed
I thought Aguilar was supposed to be the bees knees! Nope. This rig had zero booty and something was buzzing. Couldn't tell if it was a speaker or cab bracing. I had to ask the soundman to add my bass in my monitor. Could barely hear anything below low E. SMH. I had my rig in the car I should have used it. Could have been the stage. Soundman mentioned a lot of bass players complain about the rig.

You are right, it could have been the stage. So why not open a new thread and blame the stage?

 

[ThisBass]

I owned that exact setup. Plenty of booty! Something is wrong with the one you used.

Sometimes things develop wrong due to user error.

 

[ThisBass]

Maybe it was out of phase with the subs?

On a random stage the bass guitar cab is almost always out of phase with the sub.
It depends on the distance and frequency if the cab is in phase or out of phase with the sub.
Doesn't matter normally too much cause on stage there is way more of SPL coming off from the bass guitar cab.

 

[hennessybass]

So I pretty much sabotaged my own sound. I didn't touch the drive knob though. I wonder why they designed the amp that way?! Good thing I didn't have any 'slap' tunes on the setlist that night.

It’s not an intuitive control, and Aguilar did themselves zero favors with the way they named the controls.

The “drive” has zero to do with drive and the gain is not a traditional gain once the “drive” is in play. Unless the drive is off, then it is more like a regular gain knob.

It’s a really slick design if you know what’s going on and you can go from kind of super clean studio flat to old school sealed cab territory with just like 1/4 of a turn of two knobs... but if you don’t know that then it’s easy to get lost. And again, the names on the controls are super misleading... IMO.

I used a TH 350 and 500 for years and had great tone. But there is A LOT going on with that gain / drive section.

Those older Aggie cabs are, I think, really mid scooped.

Buzzing and all, sounds like there might have been something wrong with the rig.

 

[DWBass]

That stage has 2 subs underneath. 4 Mains were flown above the stage. At this point, it's in the past. If I play there again, I'll most surely use my amp.

 

[Omega Monkey]

I did a multi-artist gig several years ago. Asked if I needed to bring my rig, promototer said yeah. Turns out he told everyone else no because he planned on sharing my rig.

Yeah that's a no from me, dawg. I'd be like, my gear is going on stage right before my set and coming off right after. Period.

Anyway, neither of those demo videos are compelling at all. Some good bass playing but extremely lacking in good sounds. Just mid focused mush that on stage would mostly disappear. The only good sound in the aguilar video was around 7 or 8 minutes in where he does the larry graham inspired thing.

If your sound is EQ'd like a burial mound, 9 times out of 10 you're going to sound horrible on stage and in the FOH mix. Sometimes if you have just the right tonal character in the right band mix, it can work, but very rarely. Usually it will be kind of mushy and muddy and claustrophobic. The huge advantage of bass in a mix is that most other instruments can't go as low. Learn to use that to your advantage, and then take the good will win of trading that space for giving guitar, drums, vocals, etc... more space in the mids. But if you try to focus your tone where all the guitar and vocal fundamentals are, you're gonna have a bad time.

 

[DJ Bebop]

It’s not an intuitive control, and Aguilar did themselves zero favors with the way they named the controls.

The “drive” has zero to do with drive and the gain is not a traditional gain once the “drive” is in play. Unless the drive is off, then it is more like a regular gain knob.

It’s a really slick design if you know what’s going on and you can go from kind of super clean studio flat to old school sealed cab territory with just like 1/4 of a turn of two knobs... but if you don’t know that then it’s easy to get lost. And again, the names on the controls are super misleading... IMO.

I used a TH 350 and 500 for years and had great tone. But there is A LOT going on with that gain / drive section.

Those older Aggie cabs are, I think, really mid scooped.

Buzzing and all, sounds like there might have been something wrong with the rig.

Yep, I have a GS112. It's pretty scoopy. I think that whole GS line was voiced that way.

 

[pigpen1]

Ok, had a gig, last night, at a well known venue in Richmond, VA. This was my backline.
Link Removed
I thought Aguilar was supposed to be the bees knees! Nope. This rig had zero booty and something was buzzing. Couldn't tell if it was a speaker or cab bracing. I had to ask the soundman to add my bass in my monitor. Could barely hear anything below low E. SMH. I had my rig in the car I should have used it. Could have been the stage. Soundman mentioned a lot of bass players complain about the rig.

Here is the thing with Aguilar gear...if you are expecting lots baked-in lows, or lots of baked-in anything you won't find it with everything at noon. Sometimes you really have to tweak the eq to places that look extreme.

 

[Chickenwheels]

Yeah that's a no from me, dawg. I'd be like, my gear is going on stage right before my set and coming off right after. Period.

Anyway, neither of those demo videos are compelling at all. Some good bass playing but extremely lacking in good sounds. Just mid focused mush that on stage would mostly disappear. The only good sound in the aguilar video was around 7 or 8 minutes in where he does the larry graham inspired thing.

If your sound is EQ'd like a burial mound, 9 times out of 10 you're going to sound horrible on stage and in the FOH mix. Sometimes if you have just the right tonal character in the right band mix, it can work, but very rarely. Usually it will be kind of mushy and muddy and claustrophobic. The huge advantage of bass in a mix is that most other instruments can't go as low. Learn to use that to your advantage, and then take the good will win of trading that space for giving guitar, drums, vocals, etc... more space in the mids. But if you try to focus your tone where all the guitar and vocal fundamentals are, you're gonna have a bad time.

“Larry Graham inspired thing”
“Burial Mound EQ”
ROTFLMAO! Love it

 

[johnpbass]

So I pretty much sabotaged my own sound. I didn't touch the drive knob though. I wonder why they designed the amp that way?! Good thing I didn't have any 'slap' tunes on the setlist that night.

I don't think so. If you had the Drive off, then rolloff would not be happening. As others have said, maybe something else going on with the stage or cab perhaps.

 

[pigpen1]

I'd have to say that I am not a fan of any Aguilar gear, especially the Tone Hammer and their cabs. I did a gig a couple of months ago where a DB751 and Aguilar 410 was the supplied rig, and I couldn't get a sound out of it at all. There was a low-mid emphasis that was impossible to dial out, no perceivable fundamental below low E, and an overall roundness that seemed to impede definition. If I was strictly playing in a modern R&B kind of situation it might work, but otherwise, no thanks.

I know a lot of people love them, so.. different strokes.

What kind of stuff were you playing?

As a guy who has spent more time behind a mixing console that behind a bass on stage, I always loved the DI sound of Aguilar amps. Dead quiet with appropriate levels. That low mid emphasis was pure magic out front. Plus if its not needed out front there are more tools out there to get ride of it. Their philosophy is kind of to just give you a workable palette rather than an all in one solution in an amp from what I can tell. As you said different strokes.

 

[pigpen1]

I used a Markbass cabinet for a while & have tried some Aguilar stuff. The Aguilar cabinets are scooped in comparison to a Markbass cabinet. A Markbass cabinet is more flat, which people claim is mid-forward.
The Aguilar amp should make up for the scoop in the divers however, because the Tone Hammer amp has a flat response, not scooped.

I can only think something was wrong with that Tone Hammer at the venue, because I've never heard a Markbass amp that sounded better than an Aguilar.

Ah, I was just reading that the controls might have needed some attention.
Their Gain isn't the same as other amps.

This. Markbass is my least favorite amp of all time.

I remember I was at Guitar Center once with my wife, and I was playing through a used AG500. Sounded good to me. I plugged into a MarkBass Combo and she instantly asked "is that new it sounds like something is broken with it."

 

[pigpen1]

Neither thin nor clanky through my bluetooth speaker. Sounded like Bona. Didn't sounded good through my phone. ijs

Sounds very thin an clanky to me. Good by itself but would get super lost in a mix. I've never heard a single piece of Markbass gear I've liked, and I hate to say it the same with Fodera.

As some one mentioned earlier, the TH is not a good amp to provide for backline. The controls take some getting used to as they do not operate like normal EQ.
On the TH amps, the Gain actually controls the amount of effect that the Drive and Mid Controls have on your signal. If you've upped the Gain, then as you up the Drive, the amp starts rolling off low end and high end. For "clean" and "deep", I'd run the Gain and Drive at 0 and work from there.
If they wanted to use Aguilar for backline, the AG 700 would be a way better choice, IMO.

Can't agree more. AG700 would be was easier for most people to get used to. Those gs cabs have plenty of bottom end but who knows how much abuse that one has suffered. I'd say that Aguilar gear is the opposite of bedroom tone, but usually sounds good in a mix. I will say though that I like their GS cabs way more than their newer stuff, and don't really care for the SL stuff much at all.

 

[hennessybass]

As a guy who has spent more time behind a mixing console that behind a bass on stage, I always loved the DI sound of Aguilar amps. Dead quiet with appropriate levels. That low mid emphasis was pure magic out front.

Yep. When you remember that the TH amp is actually the TH DI with a power section things start to make a little more sense.

The "Drive" is actually a variable version of the AGS, which is like a cab sim - which kind of does the work of setting the EQ at a starting point that sits right in the mix with a kind of classic bass tone that just works.

As you turn the drive up it kind of starts off as a LPF, then starts getting into adding a HPF, then starts getting into pretty serious HP/LP-ing and adding a big upper mid focus, all while adding gain.

Once you have the AGS (or drive) going, it totally changes the nature of the gain control and EQ section due to the added gain and baked in EQ curve.
The gain control becomes like a distortion control, and that upper mid thing just makes it cut.
You kind of have to start using the treble knob to go after the upper mid once you get to that point.
The bass control is centered at 40hz - well, 40hz is seriously attenuated, and the nature of that control is changed.
It stays pretty flat from like 200 - 1K, so you can see how that mid control from 180-1k becomes your most powerful tone shaping tool.

It's a very cool design, but not if you don't know all that is happening or you think that the "drive" control controls the level of drive - which I think almost anyone would associate with some kind of dirt - as in "over drive."

Or you can keep the drive or AGS off, and just have a kind of regular old, pretty clean amp with a fairly classic design.

If you are looking for huge bottom end, and supper extended top end, this is not the amp for you - fair enough. But it's a great amp, and that AGS eq curve kind of works well in a mix with blues, rock, rock-n-roll country, roots, pop, etc... just a good classic bass tone. @KJung used to describe it as the kind of the post mixed and mastered bass tone that you hear on thousands and thousands of classic albums. It's super familiar and works in the context of a mix. But ya, it doesn't do everything - that's why Aguilar has the AG700, and why it's a good thing there are a million different amps and tone shaping tools out there.

 

[DWBass]

Uhhhh...........yeah, I will be using my amp next time. Ain't got no time for all that messing with the knobs nonsense.

 

[hennessybass]

Uhhhh...........yeah, I will be using my amp next time. Ain't got no time for all that messing with the knobs nonsense.

I've done that a fair number of times with backlines. Used what ever cab they have, but with my amp.

If you ever encounter a TH amp agin, my advice is - put everything at noon, dime the master, turn the gain off and then bring it up just enough to get the volume you need. Minor adjustment on the eq if you have to.

 

[DWBass]

Here's a video of Pieces Of A Dream at that same venue. Looks like David Dyson is using the same rig. I'm guessing it sounded good out front. I do recall getting compliments so I'm not too worried about it. I sent him a message asking if he used that same rig and how did he like it.

 

[ThisBass]

Uhhhh...........yeah, I will be using my amp next time. Ain't got no time for all that messing with the knobs nonsense.

Some folks prefer digging in something with the knobs while others don't.
So why not send an unprocessed signal direct to the power amp stage?
You could do it just the same way with your own amplifier without messing around with the knobs anyway?

 

[ThisBass]

Here's a video of Pieces Of A Dream at that same venue. Looks like David Dyson is using the same rig. I'm guessing it sounded good out front. I do recall getting compliments so I'm not too worried about it. I sent him a message asking if he used that same rig and how did he like it.

I very guess direct recording was done via mixing console.
Sometimes it happens that there is rather less volume of bass sound in the FOH sound cause the stage rig does already push plenty of sound.

If you listen carefully you'll notice that the bass guitar sound is right there, in the audience, but not so much in the mixing console

 

[Brad Johnson]

Sounds very thin an clanky to me. Good by itself but would get super lost in a mix. I've never heard a single piece of Markbass gear I've liked, and I hate to say it the same with Fodera.

Cool. I gigged an older Fodera Emperor 5 for a couple of years and used it with my LMII. No problem with either cutting through live.