Last time playing live with an amp

[Jack]

People do it
People do it
"It can't be done"
People do it

I dunno, dude. Those people dancing look pretty happy in that photo.

 

[pepj]

Its not my guitarist..but someone I know well, and his amp sounds were always very good. His Helix is not, either through the monitors or P.A. I'm surprised he has gone this route and I'd be very surprised he doesn't know this.

We wouldn't put up with that downgrade ourselves even though we do not run a full p.a.
But yep, I checked multiple bands for sound and the guys running in ears with no outfront mixing...which they can't do generally shows two things.
They mix a 5 piece band pre gig with one member outfront not playing.
And should anything change, like the drums getting louder.. they have no clue how that affects our front because they are not listening outfront.
Agree that plenty of P.A's are not great..so yep, thats on them too.

So poor mix and poor core sounds means poor sound.
I'm saying that these bands fail into poor sound territory through their inability to mix because the guy in control of the ipad is playing and listening back thru ears.

What you quoted was not the full point I made.

 

[Jack]

I just don't see how that's related though. Bands can either have an engineer or not, bands can either be ampless or not. What does one have to do with the other? I agree that mixing sound from the stage sucks, but it sucks regardless of what gear the band are using. When I go out front for a soundcheck and for instance the kick is too quiet, then what? If it's an 'all through the pa' system then I can turn that fader up. If it's all old-school then I do what? Just shout at the drummer to hit harder?

Poor mix and poor core sound can affect any band with any setup, same for the rest of your points.

 

[pepj]

Because mixing from the stage sucks...
and they never hear outfronts.

And the ears bands are loathe to change anything even when told their mix needs attention.
This happens so often on the last few in ears gigs I've seen.
Never said old skool bands dont have that problem too.

 

[Parzival]

I’ll go ampless when it’s a small room and space is tight. Otherwise, want my amp behind me.

I’ve told my guitar/sound guy, I’ll turn my amp off, then get the sound exactly like you want it. Then I’ll turn on the amp and get it to where I can hear myself over the drums and guitar on stage. Then I tell him to adjust out front and it works pretty well. Most of the time.

 

[Relsom]

I use IEM and tactile transducer (such as BackBeat or Bassboard) for ampless gigs.

For other gigs, I use amp and cab.

Whats your recommendation regarding the Backbeat? It's got me curious. I want to go ampless if I can get our BL/Drummer to rely more on his IEMs.

 

[LiptonJigglers]

"Anyone else just give up and give in like this and go amp-less??"

I've contemplated it but as of last night, it's a big NO for me.

There's a certain ambience that amps and cabs bring that just can't be replicated out front of house unless one plays through huge PA systems as used in stadiums and arenas.

That ambience was totally absent in last nights gig, even with all its high tech, no expenses spared manpower and technology and it is something I can't and won't relinquish or compromise on.

 

[_Some Dude]

My only real complaint about ampless is on the guitar side. It generally sounds like something is missing. It sounds like all the sound comes from the PA and none of the sound comes from the stage.

 

[s0c9]

My only real complaint about ampless is on the guitar side. It generally sounds like something is missing. It sounds like all the sound comes from the PA and none of the sound comes from the stage.

Why is that an issue?

 

[_Some Dude]

Why is that an issue?

Well, for starters it generally sounds like something is missing. It sounds like all the sound comes from the PA and none of the sound comes from the stage.

 

[s0c9]

Well, for starters it generally sounds like something is missing. It sounds like all the sound comes from the PA and none of the sound comes from the stage.

I’ve run sound with ampless stages and stages with amps.
The former is much easier to mix on any sizes stage.
I can guarantee there’s nothing missing in my FOH mixes..
In smaller venues fighting the stage amp volume wars is always a challenge.
Tbh, I’m not sure the audience cares about the sound source, just that it sounds good.

 

[_Some Dude]

I’ve run sound with ampless stages and stages with amps.
The former is much easier to mix on any sizes stage.
I can guarantee there’s nothing missing in my FOH mixes..
In smaller venues fighting the stage amp volume wars is always a challenge.
Tbh, I’m not sure the audience cares about the sound source, just that it sounds good.

I'll agree that mixing ampless is easier, and I'll agree that it can sound good. I still prefer the sound of a live stage reinforced by a PA instead of the PA being the sole source.

I'll even acquiesce that this isn't always true, that some bands are disciplined/experienced enough where they can do this and some can't be trusted to dial in their own amplifier or control their stage volume.

I don't think the audience cares about the source. I do think the audience cares that it sounds good. I do think the audience (some more than others) notices when something is missing, even if they have no idea why. Particularly the guy that'll position himself in front of your amplifier all night because that's the experience he's looking for.

 

[Laklandfan]

I’ve recently gone ampless and the sound guys have been thrilled and said bass sounds great. Single trip to and from car, too.

 

[EdO.]

I'll agree that mixing ampless is easier, and I'll agree that it can sound good. I still prefer the sound of a live stage reinforced by a PA instead of the PA being the sole source.

I'll even acquiesce that this isn't always true, that some bands are disciplined/experienced enough where they can do this and some can't be trusted to dial in their own amplifier or control their stage volume.

Damn few that can set stage volume levels at soundcheck, actually get it right, and then never change anything. Likely well less than 10% and that's being nice about it. Doesn't matter if the sounds of amps on stage is YOUR preference, it's about (or should be about) what it sounds like out front to the audience, assuming you give a damn about the quality of the overall sound of the band. Volume wars from the stage always sounds like ass and eliminating stage amps and giving the control over to the sound person is the best and easiest way to solve that issue. Some (damn few) have the self discipline to make it work with stage amps but assuming the operating level of the majority of users on this forum I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[_Some Dude]

My system is pretty simple, I tell the soundman we can't hear how we sound out front, and that if any of us are too loud, tell us to turn down. If anyone gives him attitude, tell me and I'll go sort them out.

It's worked out pretty well.