Hello, I’ve been playing with these guys for about two and a half years. Early on our guitar player never knew his parts but it really no big deal because we were just getting together to play songs. This guy was never prepared, never listened to the songs we were set to play nor the tempo or the words he was supposed to sing. Fast forward two years and we are a paid gigging band. In order to keep everybody on the same page we send out sheet music accompanied with music in the correct key for the singer for our next weekly rehearsal. This guy still shows up unprepared. Upon confrontation his excuse is he doesn’t want to practice band songs during the week but wants to play his own music. So the band played a few songs he wanted to play. He didn’t know the words, tempo or leads which was all he wanted to do. Now he just had a stroke and the band is his only reason to get out of bed. Any ideas?
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Lazy Bandmate
- Thread starter Loopy3
- Start date
That is a tough spot.
Just the fact that he outright stated he "doesn't want to play band songs" on his own time shows, IMO, a lack of commitment to the group. Seems that if you don't have a BL to discuss this commitment with him you may want to designate someone to do that. In my experience, a group discussion is a bad idea just because the intended target of the conversation will feel like he's being "ganged up on" and will just be defensive.
The health angle adds a certain level of difficulty though too, not sure how I'd react with that in the mix.
Just the fact that he outright stated he "doesn't want to play band songs" on his own time shows, IMO, a lack of commitment to the group. Seems that if you don't have a BL to discuss this commitment with him you may want to designate someone to do that. In my experience, a group discussion is a bad idea just because the intended target of the conversation will feel like he's being "ganged up on" and will just be defensive.
The health angle adds a certain level of difficulty though too, not sure how I'd react with that in the mix.
It may be time to formalise a situation that has already been de facto in effect: You have a working band, and you have a jam environment. Some of the members overlap.
If you really like the guy, offer to continue the informal social jams.
But he must realize that the band can't work with him in it. Find a replacement or give up on that as a concept. Maybe revisit it later.
If he'd rather hold you back as a working band than see it succeed without him, it was never going to work anyway...
If you don't like him enough to play socially, (probably on a reduced schedule) then that's a harsh reality, but it's not your job to be his occupational therapist.
Especially since he wasn't pulling his weight before. I wouldn't have called him lazy, BTW - maybe just 'differently motivated.'
When it became clear Sid Barrett couldn't keep playing with Pink Floyd, they kept him on salary for the rest of his life. But he had already made a huge contribution to the project, and they had the funding to make it possible.
If you really like the guy, offer to continue the informal social jams.
But he must realize that the band can't work with him in it. Find a replacement or give up on that as a concept. Maybe revisit it later.
If he'd rather hold you back as a working band than see it succeed without him, it was never going to work anyway...
If you don't like him enough to play socially, (probably on a reduced schedule) then that's a harsh reality, but it's not your job to be his occupational therapist.
Especially since he wasn't pulling his weight before. I wouldn't have called him lazy, BTW - maybe just 'differently motivated.'
When it became clear Sid Barrett couldn't keep playing with Pink Floyd, they kept him on salary for the rest of his life. But he had already made a huge contribution to the project, and they had the funding to make it possible.
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While reading I was prepared to respond with, "I have no tolerance for that stuff any more,"... then you threw in the stroke part.
Tough spot.
I'd be honest with the guy and communicate as best I could. Not being prepared is disrespectful to other in the group who ARE doing their homework.
I think I'd probably roll back my commitment with the group while looking for a new situation that better fit my needs. Some might consider that codependent... but yeah, it brings me back to the tough spot response.
I got nuthin.
Tough spot.
I'd be honest with the guy and communicate as best I could. Not being prepared is disrespectful to other in the group who ARE doing their homework.
I think I'd probably roll back my commitment with the group while looking for a new situation that better fit my needs. Some might consider that codependent... but yeah, it brings me back to the tough spot response.
I got nuthin.
Fire him. You should have a long time ago.
My first impression is the band made their own bed of this. He clearly wasn't as committed to this when it came down to preparing for paid gigs and stated as much when you queried him about it, so instead of replacing him, you further enabled him by doing what he wanted and when he still wasn't up to snuff, you did nothing about it. Now you feel stuck because who wants to tell someone to get lost when they say it's the only reason to get out of bed?
The stroke must've been the kindest one in the world or you still waited rather than replace him and now he's well enough again, not sure which. The sucky aspect of being BL, or a boss in any job, is being the jerk that has to cut them loose, but it is part of the job. Good luck.
The stroke must've been the kindest one in the world or you still waited rather than replace him and now he's well enough again, not sure which. The sucky aspect of being BL, or a boss in any job, is being the jerk that has to cut them loose, but it is part of the job. Good luck.
I don't take the prettiest angle on this, but it's possible he is kind of playing you all with the guilt of the stroke. Did he actually tell you all that the band is why he gets up in the morning? Just to say something like that seems to prey on other's emotions. But hey, i don't know the guy so may well be totally off base. Ultimately you have to cut him loose. A health problem shouldn't mean everyone has to throw a pity party for him. poopie happens to everyone.
So you're saying he's a guitarist?
If you are investing effort and they are not putting in the same commitment all you get out of that is hanging out.
If you are investing effort and they are not putting in the same commitment all you get out of that is hanging out.
If it's his only reason to get out of bed maybe he should put out more effort?
Keep looking for a substitute and then fire that lazy guy.
Yeah a potential split with one version of the band being casual and the other strictly business seems plausible. It's the friendliest way to go about it.
It probably won't work out but it would be nice to try.
It probably won't work out but it would be nice to try.
FWIW, this is a quotation (from Quint Studer) that I used a lot in teaching management and leadership - "What you permit, you promote".
Best wishes in finding a solution.
Best wishes in finding a solution.
buldog5151bass
Kibble, milkbones, and P Basses. And redheads.
I feel sorry for the guy, but you aren't there to be his nursemaid. Time for a band sit down to discuss expectations.
Very simple if it were me. Every band member is expected to do the work on their own to know the material. If they are not willing to do that consistently, the band will find a replacement.
If you want to have a side "jam" on the side for your friend, fine. But you shouldn't be held captive.
Very simple if it were me. Every band member is expected to do the work on their own to know the material. If they are not willing to do that consistently, the band will find a replacement.
If you want to have a side "jam" on the side for your friend, fine. But you shouldn't be held captive.
Posters #3 and #4, 12 & 14 are thinking along the same lines as me. It's a problem being a working band with a level of professionalism (which it sounds like you guys have from the whole sheet music thing) and having one member unwilling to meet that level of commitment.
Here is my suggestion but I don't know if it works for you.
1) Keep playing with this guy/supporting him through the health and having fun playing less prepared/jammy music with him. This is "fun" not work. Think of it as practice if you like, practicing ensemble playing and improvising.
2) hire a new guitar player for the working band. Jam with your old guitarist, get gigs if you can with that set up. But have a separate working band with the new guitarist. If it would upset your current axe player for the band to go on without him, just change the band name for the new line up/retain the old band name for your jam thing (chances are your new band will be better anyway with a dedicated guitarist so you want a fresh name for a fresh start)
This may or may not work depending on your circumstances but I see it as a possible solution to support a friend without sacrificing the rest of the lineups more serious ambitions.
Here is my suggestion but I don't know if it works for you.
1) Keep playing with this guy/supporting him through the health and having fun playing less prepared/jammy music with him. This is "fun" not work. Think of it as practice if you like, practicing ensemble playing and improvising.
2) hire a new guitar player for the working band. Jam with your old guitarist, get gigs if you can with that set up. But have a separate working band with the new guitarist. If it would upset your current axe player for the band to go on without him, just change the band name for the new line up/retain the old band name for your jam thing (chances are your new band will be better anyway with a dedicated guitarist so you want a fresh name for a fresh start)
This may or may not work depending on your circumstances but I see it as a possible solution to support a friend without sacrificing the rest of the lineups more serious ambitions.
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These statements are incongruous.
Reality check: how much did the stroke affect his abilities? Can the cat still play? If not, jam with the guy as a supportive friend, but he's got to understand moving on.
If he can still play, point out the inconsistency of those claims and tell him he's got to pull his weight. No question playing music can be effective for stroke rehab. He might just need to rehab on band stuff a little harder.
Do you record practices? Gigs? Does he have the insight to see that he's holding you back? How did the "confrontation" go? Someone pushed back a little about "I don't want to play band songs"...right? Did he commit to improving and not follow through? From your description, that sounds like the opportunity to have addressed his lack of commitment. If he's still capable of following through on what really needs to be a commitment to the band and hasn't had a chance to improve, it's fair to give him a chance. If he's already had a chance, or two if you're extra patient, and he blew it, that's really got nothing to do with his stroke.
Waiting for a few weeks before firing him is kind and gracious. It's clear you don't want to pile on. But I learned from a friend of mine who was consoling me when I had to fire someone: You don't fire people. People fire themselves.
Are you running a charity, social club, or business? Answering that question can inform your actions. 
If it were me: Hire a new guitarist for gigs and let the old fella jam with you and sit in on a couple songs he knows.
If it were me: Hire a new guitarist for gigs and let the old fella jam with you and sit in on a couple songs he knows.
As posted above: hire a new guitar player to make the band viable. Always invite the stroke victim to jams. I hate to say it, but keep the sound man in the loop to keep his guitar wayyyyyy down in the mix. If you play a song he can still do fairly well on a lead break, sure, let him fly his kite. But leave the journeyman chores to the guitar player you hire, telling him up front the situation in the audition.
Syd Barrett comes to mind after he fried his brain on acid. The difference is that nobody can predict a stroke. I had a similar situation in the early 2000's, when I had a mini-clot-stroke that got my left hand. All of a sudden, in the middle of a gig, my left hand just quit working. I wasn't about to let it stop me, and I made up my own PT regimen, starting with thumb to finger touches, and working myself back up to full playing ability. Nothing was going to keep me down, even if I had to raise the music stand playing guitar in church band so no one could see me and I could as necessary use my right hand to adjust my left hand on the frets on the fly. I am blessed and thankful that now, comparing my playing to recordings before the mini stroke, you can't tell it ever happened. Ironically, my right hand took up the slack (I am left-handed, but always playing conventional right-handed instruments) and where before I could hardly fingerpick on guitar, now I have some modicum of fingerpicking ability with my right hand I never had before.
By contrast, my band from the '90's lived through a similar situation a few years ago. Our lead guitar player was great. Yes, great. We have the studio tapes to prove it. But, after we disbanded, with family, a job transfer, and life generally, over the course of twenty years he has completely lost his chops. Completely. When he does come to visit, I usually have to fix the same niggles on his guitar that keep cropping up as did then, and then all he can do is play some of the chords. He can't even play his own leads that he recorded 25+ years ago. He finally figured it out a couple of years ago when, well, let's just say he turned red in the face so we all stopped, took a break and popped open a beer. Now just shares a beer with us when he is in town when we jam. It's actually rather tragic. The upside is that his career and family are doing really, really well. He just can't play anymore.
Syd Barrett comes to mind after he fried his brain on acid. The difference is that nobody can predict a stroke. I had a similar situation in the early 2000's, when I had a mini-clot-stroke that got my left hand. All of a sudden, in the middle of a gig, my left hand just quit working. I wasn't about to let it stop me, and I made up my own PT regimen, starting with thumb to finger touches, and working myself back up to full playing ability. Nothing was going to keep me down, even if I had to raise the music stand playing guitar in church band so no one could see me and I could as necessary use my right hand to adjust my left hand on the frets on the fly. I am blessed and thankful that now, comparing my playing to recordings before the mini stroke, you can't tell it ever happened. Ironically, my right hand took up the slack (I am left-handed, but always playing conventional right-handed instruments) and where before I could hardly fingerpick on guitar, now I have some modicum of fingerpicking ability with my right hand I never had before.
By contrast, my band from the '90's lived through a similar situation a few years ago. Our lead guitar player was great. Yes, great. We have the studio tapes to prove it. But, after we disbanded, with family, a job transfer, and life generally, over the course of twenty years he has completely lost his chops. Completely. When he does come to visit, I usually have to fix the same niggles on his guitar that keep cropping up as did then, and then all he can do is play some of the chords. He can't even play his own leads that he recorded 25+ years ago. He finally figured it out a couple of years ago when, well, let's just say he turned red in the face so we all stopped, took a break and popped open a beer. Now just shares a beer with us when he is in town when we jam. It's actually rather tragic. The upside is that his career and family are doing really, really well. He just can't play anymore.
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