Double Bass LDS 2x8 3-way and EA VL208 comparison

[macmrkt]

Yep, you're right. I weighed my recent 1x8 3-way Neo LDS and it's 24lbs.

 

[tombowlus]

Tom, I noticed elsewhere that you did not like the sound of the LDS 3-way 1 x 10. Are you thinking that a 2-way or 1-way 1 x 10 might be better? What do you think about the Epi UL-110 or Acme B-1 with an LDS 3-way 1 x 8?

I was thinking that a 1-way 1x10 (tuned for low frequencies only) combined with a 3-way 1x8 would be the whip. The one 3-way 1x10 that I listened to seemed to me like it needed better balance across the mids, which I would hope to accomplish by incorporating the 8" (which, conversely, needs a little help in the low end).

I have not tried pairing up my 3-way 1x8 with any of my other 1x10's, but that is probably a good experiment.

Tom.

 

[jallenbass]

Has anyone noticed whether the 2x8 has the same port chuffing problem that the 1x8 has? I just received my 1x8 and I love it except for that noise that goes along with the lowest 4 notes on my E string.

 

[Ric Vice]

I own a EA VL 108 and I don't remember having any problems with
chuffing. I wonder if the Transmission Line configuration of that cabinet eliminates this problem?

 

[Adrian Cho]

OK now you have me concerned. This is the standard 14" cubed cabinet?

 

[jallenbass]

Yes. I have been able to reduce the noise with the high pass filter on my Clarus but I'm wondering if the 2x8 makes it unnecessary to do that. I haven't used it on a gig yet but others say it's a non-issue with a group. I would still like to have the sound as pure as possible. It's a great sounding cabinet overall.

 

[Tbeers]

You are not the first to complain about this with the LDS 1x8. I can tell you from my experience that the problem does not happen with the 2x8. My notes are clear all through the range of the instrument.

 

[jallenbass]

Thank you. That's what I want to know.

 

[Aleph5]

I have not heard any chuffing, though I've done limited auditioning (and at limited volume). I'll be listening for it, but can't tonight.

 

[abaguer]

I would think the Acme B1 would be a good other speaker for the LDS 8 since the B1 has plenty of bottom and is also 3-way. Only thing is B1 is very inefficient but great sound and built really well.

 

[macmrkt]

Has anyone noticed whether the 2x8 has the same port chuffing problem that the 1x8 has? I just received my 1x8 and I love it except for that noise that goes along with the lowest 4 notes on my E string.

I got that sound on every small bass cabinet I've had - Eden, Acme, Accugroove, EA and LDS...if I tried to create it and listened for it. Occurs at (for me) high volume solo playing - a situation that I wouldn't come across in 'real' use.

 

[jallenbass]

I have a Hartke KickBack 10 that doesn't do that no matter how much I push it. I guess I was expecting more from a custom cabinet.

 

[jallenbass]

I stand corrected. The Hartke is rear-ported so I never really noticed it until now.

 

[Adrian Cho]

You are not the first to complain about this with the LDS 1x8. I can tell you from my experience that the problem does not happen with the 2x8. My notes are clear all through the range of the instrument.

My assumption is that this is something to do with the tuning of the cabinet rather than the fact that there is an extra 8" woofer in there.

To be honest, I've never had much faith in somewhat cubically dimensioned cabinets yet alone exactly cubically dimensioned cabinets. More than once I've wondered about the LDS 1x8 which is 14" cubed. There is one school of thought about the optimum dimensions for a speaker enclosure of a given volume (the so called "Golden Ratio"). I believe the idea is that a cube (at least for a sealed enclosure) is the worst possible design and that you try and avoid lengths that are multiples of one another. I think the idea is to avoid standing waves which can cause problems with low notes disappearing or being overly exaggerated.

 

[Adrian Cho]

I'm sent a PM to Ralf Patterson inviting him to reply to my post as I'm sure he can address my concerns about the cabinet dimensions. I hope he'll post.

 

[tombowlus]

I'm sent a PM to Ralf Patterson inviting him to reply to my post as I'm sure he can address my concerns about the cabinet dimensions. I hope he'll post.

I just picked up two of Ralf's 2x8's with Selenium tweeters from TBer "Vision." These are the very same 4 ohm Patterson Audio 2x8's that I fell in love with up at LDS! I look forward to putting them through their paces!

Tom.

 

[rpatter]

My assumption is that this is something to do with the tuning of the cabinet rather than the fact that there is an extra 8" woofer in there.

To be honest, I've never had much faith in somewhat cubically dimensioned cabinets yet alone exactly cubically dimensioned cabinets. More than once I've wondered about the LDS 1x8 which is 14" cubed. There is one school of thought about the optimum dimensions for a speaker enclosure of a given volume (the so called "Golden Ratio"). I believe the idea is that a cube (at least for a sealed enclosure) is the worst possible design and that you try and avoid lengths that are multiples of one another. I think the idea is to avoid standing waves which can cause problems with low notes disappearing or being overly exaggerated.

Adrian,

Musical instrument speaker design defies many "hi fi speaker" design conventions. The golden ratio being one of them (although I rarely adhere to that even in my hi fi designs). The fact that the box is cubed will have more effect on the midrange frequencies than the bass simply because it's so small. That being said, I think that between the bracing, midrange cup and the woofer itself, there are enough structures within the box to break up any significant standing waves. The problem with port chuffing is that the port is relatively small. Don and I have had many discussions on how to deal with it including talks about using a passive radiator. The difficulty is that a larger port will have to be longer and the box is so darn small to begin with (thus the passive radiator idea). I suspect eq may have something to do with it too. Any amount of bass boost will exaggerate the chuffing. I'll take a look at the box again and see if there is enough room for a larger (and therefore longer) port.

Ralf

 

[Adrian Cho]

Thanks for the post Ralf. Yes I was pretty sure that my concerns about the cubical dimensions of the cab were unfounded. My concern is based mostly on experience in that I've not seen many cubically dimensioned musical instrument speakers.

Your point about EQ is well-taken. Perhaps people are just expecting too much from this box. I am of the "absolutely never EQ unless you absolutely must" school but I'm already able get a pretty bass-heavy acoustic sound of the instrument due to the setup.

I continue to have faith in what Don will produce just from everything I've heard and from my brief talks with him. I still can't wait for my LDS 1x8 to arrive.

 

[basss]

IME a small amount of chuffing is never heard in a band situation - even in very exposed settings. If you are playing alone in a quiet room at loud volumes - which hopefully you dont need to do with an acoustic instrument - you may hear it. I've had a home made cabinet that chuffed a bit and it never bothered me except when playing loud alone in my room. It shouldn't happen but I don't think its a big deal unless its extreme.

 

[Aleph5]

Armchair designer: Wonder if the 1x8 could become a 2-way, eliminating the tweeter (or maybe the midrange) . This would allow the baffle to be smaller and the cabinet could be deeper, allowing a longer port.