Double Bass LDS 2x8 3-way and EA VL208 comparison

[Adrian Cho]

I believe some of the early buyers of LDS 1x8s here on TalkBass were getting 2-way cabs.

 

[macmrkt]

If you ever get a chance to talk to Don about what's on his list of mini bass cabinet designs he's researching...LOTS of food for thought! Of course, that keeps him from fulfilling all the backlog of orders!

 

[rpatter]

Armchair designer: Wonder if the 1x8 could become a 2-way, eliminating the tweeter (or maybe the midrange) . This would allow the baffle to be smaller and the cabinet could be deeper, allowing a longer port.

A two way would certainly work. I've always felt that the midrange is superfluous with the Neo 8". That thing has fabulous midrange. However, a lot of players like the midrange and the 14" cube seems to be a magic size. I still can't believe you guys are actually using a 1x8 to play live! A 1x10 I can see, but in my mind an 8" doesn't have much of a place outside of practicing at home.

Ralf

 

[Aleph5]

I still can't believe you guys are actually using a 1x8 to play live! A 1x10 I can see, but in my mind an 8" doesn't have much of a place outside of practicing at home.

That's what my brother says. But don't get Adrian started about what "our" Schertler can do!

(Backstory: I bought Adrian's Schertler Pub. Just played a few notes through it so far, but it doesn't have nearly the brightness of the LDS. More after I use it more.)

 

[rpatter]

I talked with Don at length yesterday about the whole port chuffing thing. After crunching the numbers it looks like he'll be able to use 2 somewhat smaller ports in place of the one. This should reduce the turbulence in the port enough to eliminate the chuffing problem. Stand by for more info in the coming days...

Ralf

Adrian,

Musical instrument speaker design defies many "hi fi speaker" design conventions. The golden ratio being one of them (although I rarely adhere to that even in my hi fi designs). The fact that the box is cubed will have more effect on the midrange frequencies than the bass simply because it's so small. That being said, I think that between the bracing, midrange cup and the woofer itself, there are enough structures within the box to break up any significant standing waves. The problem with port chuffing is that the port is relatively small. Don and I have had many discussions on how to deal with it including talks about using a passive radiator. The difficulty is that a larger port will have to be longer and the box is so darn small to begin with (thus the passive radiator idea). I suspect eq may have something to do with it too. Any amount of bass boost will exaggerate the chuffing. I'll take a look at the box again and see if there is enough room for a larger (and therefore longer) port.

Ralf

 

[Adrian Cho]

Thanks for following up on that Ralf. Very interesting. Now I just have to get hold of him and see if that is going to be done with mine. I spoke with him on the weekend and he thought one of the cabs he was in the middle of building was mine.

 

[Adrian Cho]

I spoke to Don yesterday about the port chuffing. He mentioned that on my cab he is still using the single port but has moved it to the back. I've never had a rear-ported speaker before and my only question is what will happen if I am forced to put the back of the speaker close to a wall?

 

[KJung]

I spoke to Don yesterday about the port chuffing. He mentioned that on my cab he is still using the single port but has moved it to the back. I've never had a rear-ported speaker before and my only question is what will happen if I am forced to put the back of the speaker close to a wall?

I am not a fan of rear mounted ports on most speaker cabs. Others will disagree, but I've always found that it makes the cabs more dependent on placement (i.e., the sound changes more depending on what's behind it versus a front mounted port). For cabs tuned very low (like the Acme's), port placement becomes less of an issue, since the 'standing wave' or whatever it is coming from the port is so low as to be omnidirectional. However, on smaller, normally tuned cabs (i.e., ones that drop off significantly at, for example, around 50 hz), my experience is that they can be problematic in certain rooms.

To answer you specific question, as long as you leave 6" or so between the wall and the cab, you won't have any problems (i.e., the port will work as designed).

 

[Ric Vice]

Ditto

 

[rpatter]

I spoke to Don yesterday about the port chuffing. He mentioned that on my cab he is still using the single port but has moved it to the back. I've never had a rear-ported speaker before and my only question is what will happen if I am forced to put the back of the speaker close to a wall?

As KJung says, just leave about 6" or so and you'll be fine. A distance equal to at least twice the port diameter is a good rule of thumb. I'm not wild about rear ported cabs either, but I think it's purely psychological. Having said that, some of the better sounding cabs I've built have a front AND rear port.

Ralf

 

[tombowlus]

First off, here is the photo of (one of) the 3-way neo LDS 1x8 cab(s) that I bought from macmrkt with the custom Tuki cover he had made:

This has the extra room on top for transporting a compact head.

Here's the bottom of the cab with the cover on:

And he's the cab "naked!":

No comments on my fancy schmancy basement carpet!!!

Tom.

 

[tombowlus]

And here are my two new (to me!) Patterson Audio 2x8's:

 

[Freddels]

This has the extra room on top for transporting a compact head.

Is there enough room in the pocket for a WW or Focus head?

No comments on my fancy schmancy basement carpet!!!

Tom.

Maybe you could have Don make your next cab using that carpet so that everything matches. Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Phil Smith]

I would put books, cables and wires in the pocket, but not my compact head.

 

[macmrkt]

Is there enough room in the pocket for a WW or Focus head?

It just fits a Clarus SL as it is, and that's really all that Tuki would add. It's tough to get Tuki to make custom add-ons. Mooradian might be a better choice for that.

 

[Adrian Cho]

Don called me today to say he would be testing my cab on the weekend and sending it out on Monday. This will be the 3-way 1x8 with a compartment in the top for holding the Focus, AMT, and Vektor preamps, a powerboard and whatever else. I also got the removal cart option. My B-1 arrived today and I'm just about to take it for a spin...

 

[Tom Baldwin]

Don called me today to say he would be testing my cab on the weekend and sending it out on Monday. This will be the 3-way 1x8 with a compartment in the top for holding the Focus, AMT, and Vektor preamps, a powerboard and whatever else. I also got the removal cart option. My B-1 arrived today and I'm just about to take it for a spin...

You know you will have to post pics of that LDS with and without cart. Is the compartment also removable?

 

[jmain]

Or maybe it's just me?


Definitely gotta show pics of the LDS rig when you get it.

 

[Adrian Cho]

The compartment is not removable. I also may have screwed up and not made the compartment deep enough. I told Don to make it 3" deep as I was trying to keep the thing as small as possible. I am not sure what the thickness of the walls is but basically I'm looking at a 14" x 14" (subtracting the thickness of the walls) x 3" compartment. It will fit the Focus fine. It's the damn AMT preamp that may be a squeeze if it sits on its rubber feet. If it sits on its side, it won't be fit in the compartment for travel. I will quite possibly also need to use some cables right-angle jacks if I want to leave everything connected with the top on - we'll see.

 

[jmain]

And here are my two new (to me!) Patterson Audio 2x8's:

Tom,
Are these basically the same configuration of cabs that you were loving on previously? Have you done a VL208 x Patterson 208 A/B shootout yet, or is it in the works? I think I remember reading that you brought the VL108 during your visit.

Maybe you could have Don make your next cab using that carpet so that everything matches. Sorry, couldn't resist.

Might be psychoacoustics, but would be sweet for those funk numbers!