looking for thoughts and advice on taking the reign on musical direction for a band. I'm a very capable singer and bassist. Please tell me how those of you assert direction. I have a general sense but it's obviously an uphill battle.
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Leading a band
- Thread starter BassGtrMic
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Starting/Being in a band | TalkBass Wiki
Gigging/Stage Management | TalkBass Wiki
If only I knew then what I know now...
Best musical advice you ever got
Search for TBr @jive1 in Band Management. He learns lots of tunes, gets gigs, picks from good players that want to get paid and has been doing it for a long time. Also on YT. If we're lucky, Maybe he'll chime in with some of his sage advice.
Here's one of his posts:
Gigging/Stage Management | TalkBass Wiki
If only I knew then what I know now...
Best musical advice you ever got
Search for TBr @jive1 in Band Management. He learns lots of tunes, gets gigs, picks from good players that want to get paid and has been doing it for a long time. Also on YT. If we're lucky, Maybe he'll chime in with some of his sage advice.
Here's one of his posts:
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Everyone has a say, but yours should be the the decision.
If there's a complaint, there should also be a solution attached.
If there's a complaint, there should also be a solution attached.
I will read through these articles. Thank you stumbo
I will cheese threads. Much appreciated
Luckily that’s mostly goneStart wearing a hat so you don’t tear your hair out.
The number one attribute of any leader is competence.
Just like musicianship, you don’t get to just because you want to. You have to demonstrate competency to be taken seriously as a leader.
There are two types of band leaders, so I’m not sure which kind you mean. Type 1 is the business leader, and does booking, marketing, and distribution. Type 2 is a musical leader, and makes decisions about parts, arrangements, keys, and vocals.
Just like musicianship, you don’t get to just because you want to. You have to demonstrate competency to be taken seriously as a leader.
There are two types of band leaders, so I’m not sure which kind you mean. Type 1 is the business leader, and does booking, marketing, and distribution. Type 2 is a musical leader, and makes decisions about parts, arrangements, keys, and vocals.
First thing I would say is that it needs to be your band; you need to have a concept, provide the necessary infrastructure for it to happen (rehearsal space, PA, etc.), recruit players who are on board with what you're trying to do, and take responsibility for marketing the group and getting gigs (assuming you want to gig). The more of these things that somebody else does, the more leverage they (rightly) have and the more you're a contributing member of the band rather than its clear leader.
If you want to be an absolute-control leader, you need to be able to deliver; your band members need to see that you're either providing regular and generous pay, or feel that they are following a genius because the ideas are so good. Be aware that they are likely to be much more skeptical of your genius than you are.
I think a better and more realistic model of band leadership is more a chairman-of-the-board model; not the dictator to the rest, but the guy who sets the tone and the agenda, encourages discussion and input, builds consensus, makes sure everyone's concerns are being answered, and makes the final decision.
One thing that's related to that is to talk to your musicians about what their goals are. Bands are fragile things. Unless you're delivering big money gigs on a regular basis, they aren't relying on your music project to pay their bills and you don't have the position of a boss at work; you're more like a volunteer manager, which means they will only keep showing up as long as the project fulfills goals THEY have. So make sure you know what those goals are and what the band needs to do to meet them.
Make money decisions BEFORE any actual money is in play. Who is going to pay for what, and how is any income going to be divvied up? Make sure everyone knows the deal and agrees to it. Nothing will sour people on a band quicker than feeling they're being shafted in the wallet. Other than someone in the band sleeping with their girlfriend. For instance, in my trio (Six Cowards, see sig), I cover all the expenses, the PA, website, everything apart from the guys' individual gear. When we get a gig, the other guys get paid first, $100 each. After they're taken care of I get paid next, up to $200. After that it's even splits. Sometimes that benefits me more, sometimes less; on a $250 gig I get $50 while they get $100 each, on a $400 gig I get $200 and they still get $100 each.
I think it's also a good idea to be able to state what kind of band you are in a short phrase of just three to five words at most. Six Cowards plays 21st Century Alternative Rock. That helps communicate an identity and helps people decide if they're interested in hearing you (and booking you!). If your answer to that question is a vague ramble of "we play a little of this and a little of that, but we do it in our own style, which is kinda funky, but not really old-school funk, it's more like..." (snore...). There is such a thing as an Eclectic Party Band, of course, so you can own that, but you have to be able to communicate it.
If you want to be an absolute-control leader, you need to be able to deliver; your band members need to see that you're either providing regular and generous pay, or feel that they are following a genius because the ideas are so good. Be aware that they are likely to be much more skeptical of your genius than you are.
I think a better and more realistic model of band leadership is more a chairman-of-the-board model; not the dictator to the rest, but the guy who sets the tone and the agenda, encourages discussion and input, builds consensus, makes sure everyone's concerns are being answered, and makes the final decision.
One thing that's related to that is to talk to your musicians about what their goals are. Bands are fragile things. Unless you're delivering big money gigs on a regular basis, they aren't relying on your music project to pay their bills and you don't have the position of a boss at work; you're more like a volunteer manager, which means they will only keep showing up as long as the project fulfills goals THEY have. So make sure you know what those goals are and what the band needs to do to meet them.
Make money decisions BEFORE any actual money is in play. Who is going to pay for what, and how is any income going to be divvied up? Make sure everyone knows the deal and agrees to it. Nothing will sour people on a band quicker than feeling they're being shafted in the wallet. Other than someone in the band sleeping with their girlfriend. For instance, in my trio (Six Cowards, see sig), I cover all the expenses, the PA, website, everything apart from the guys' individual gear. When we get a gig, the other guys get paid first, $100 each. After they're taken care of I get paid next, up to $200. After that it's even splits. Sometimes that benefits me more, sometimes less; on a $250 gig I get $50 while they get $100 each, on a $400 gig I get $200 and they still get $100 each.
I think it's also a good idea to be able to state what kind of band you are in a short phrase of just three to five words at most. Six Cowards plays 21st Century Alternative Rock. That helps communicate an identity and helps people decide if they're interested in hearing you (and booking you!). If your answer to that question is a vague ramble of "we play a little of this and a little of that, but we do it in our own style, which is kinda funky, but not really old-school funk, it's more like..." (snore...). There is such a thing as an Eclectic Party Band, of course, so you can own that, but you have to be able to communicate it.
As you spend more time on this site, I think you will find that many bassist have been just as forward thinking as you. As to your question, there are a number of things to consider. Many will be contained in those threads listed above. Here would be the top few in my head:
- I consider band leadership a "benevolent dictatorship". I will let other band mates express opinions, but I make the final call, and my call isn't up for debate once made.
- Be prepared to do....ALL....of the work. Promotion, booking, logistics, PA and sound reinforcement. Thats on you now. A leader can't doll out all of the real work, but think he can make all of the decisions.
- Have a direction, a plan, and a backup plan. "I want to front a band" isn't a plan. What genre will you play? What songs in that genre? With those songs, what clubs will we play? Do I want this band to travel, or just stay local? If we're going to travel, how will be finance those travels? Where will we rehearse, and will I have to pay musicians for rehearsals to get the quality I need.
- Be prepared to shell out your own money for marketing and promotion. Web design, FB ad promotion, banners, merch, promo recordings, videos.
- Have a plan to pay yourself back for everything above.
- Be prepared to get zero praise from your band mates.
- If you're trying to wrest power from an existing band, be prepared to lose friends and find new band mates.
Find people that want to do the same thing you do. It sounds facetious, but I'm serious. Trying to convince someone who wants to play fun album cuts that the band needs to play what the audience wants to hear is a tough sell.
I'm very competent at Type 2 BL and terrible at Type 1 BL. That's where booking agents are really helpful - just make sure you're not getting taken for a ride.
Not many People are as forward thinking. Ever wonder why not everyone is a leader. Spend some time doing it and you'll see why. Some aren't cut out for it, some are clueless, etc. Some are thrust into the position and resent it, some crave it as it suits their natural abilities and some crave it for power or something else. Just like here at the office where I type this.
The fact you're on here and concerned about it, like most of the folks in this subforum, puts you ahead of many in your thinking.
Good luck!
What I've read (there have been studies on this stuff) says the most effective leaders nowadays have one thing in common: humility. Yes, humility. They know they're not perfect, and they appreciate the people around them that contribute to the success of the enterprise. People that feel heard and appreciated will line up behind a leader and pull for the team, even when the direction is not exactly what they'd choose.
If you want people to follow you, you need to seek their opinions, listen to them, and thank them for their input. If everyone has the same idea (including you), you don't even need to express your own opinion - you just say "were going here" - as everyone agrees, that situation is a no brainer.
The toughest thing to do as a leader is set direction when things are unclear. People want clear direction, but they also want/need to be heard. So, you ask them for their opinion, you listen, you thank them for their input, and then you say: "OK, where we should be headed is not completely clear, but we gotta pick one direction. We're going....here."
If you want people to follow you, you need to seek their opinions, listen to them, and thank them for their input. If everyone has the same idea (including you), you don't even need to express your own opinion - you just say "were going here" - as everyone agrees, that situation is a no brainer.
The toughest thing to do as a leader is set direction when things are unclear. People want clear direction, but they also want/need to be heard. So, you ask them for their opinion, you listen, you thank them for their input, and then you say: "OK, where we should be headed is not completely clear, but we gotta pick one direction. We're going....here."
Is this an existing project? If so, you won't be able to "take over" musical direction. People are not going to suddenly cede to your ideas on direction of the band after the project has been in motion for awhile. What you can do is facilitate discussion of everyone's individual ideas on the subject and then work to try to find a direction all can work with (might not be yours). Also, as said above, if you want to be seen as a leader then take the lead on the crappy jobs as well - everyone wants to choose the direction of the band - very few actually want to do the work involved to make it a success.
DONT DO IT MAN!! 
All good stuff above thre . I look at the role like a army sargeant -you are the first one in and last one out. You sort out all your men (or women) before yourself. You make sure they understand what when and where- you shoot down all stupid band problems like a AA gun before they happen. You go into clubs and beg managers to book your band. You worry about the FB site, the website and everything else. make sure everyone is paid before you and they are happy. You carry the drummer's kit and the bassman's amp
Its essentially a big pain you wish someone else will do most the time LOL
All good stuff above thre . I look at the role like a army sargeant -you are the first one in and last one out. You sort out all your men (or women) before yourself. You make sure they understand what when and where- you shoot down all stupid band problems like a AA gun before they happen. You go into clubs and beg managers to book your band. You worry about the FB site, the website and everything else. make sure everyone is paid before you and they are happy. You carry the drummer's kit and the bassman's amp
Its essentially a big pain you wish someone else will do most the time
LOL
I host a blues "session" (see jam thread) at my house. It's the same 5 guys. We get together once a week and murder or severely main the blues classics. We throw out ideas and play through them. We have on occasion taken some of the material to a "blues jam" (again, play the songs, some folks get opportunities to solo....I need to extend this to the bass player next time actually!). Now we have an opportunity to "open" for a local band. Basically play a couple of short sets for no pay on their equipment. Since this is all for fun, we're going for it.
But, in addition to the other things I do (prepared charts, host, find subs if someone can't make it and the others want to play) I am working on tightening things up a bit. Which involves musical direction. So I have asked the harp player to lay out for certain sections or work with the drummer on tightening up the ending or how better can we do the intro to this. Or even, I made a track and play on top where one song ends and the next begins as a demo. So, it's possible to direct music for something underway.
But, in addition to the other things I do (prepared charts, host, find subs if someone can't make it and the others want to play) I am working on tightening things up a bit. Which involves musical direction. So I have asked the harp player to lay out for certain sections or work with the drummer on tightening up the ending or how better can we do the intro to this. Or even, I made a track and play on top where one song ends and the next begins as a demo. So, it's possible to direct music for something underway.
yes, so much good advice here, which is why we stay!
- pick a genre, create a setlist
- pick a band name (usually the hardest part)
- make cheat sheets for all the players with simple notes
- require punctuality & sobriety from all players until you settle on regulars
- pay the band up front, in cash, in white envelopes with date and amount
- keep records of who plays for how much. some guitar players you can pay $50 but the awesome sax dude gets $100. Hey, it's business!
- make business cards
- dress well, smell good, be personable. smile a lot.
- pick a genre, create a setlist
- pick a band name (usually the hardest part)
- make cheat sheets for all the players with simple notes
- require punctuality & sobriety from all players until you settle on regulars
- pay the band up front, in cash, in white envelopes with date and amount
- keep records of who plays for how much. some guitar players you can pay $50 but the awesome sax dude gets $100. Hey, it's business!
- make business cards
- dress well, smell good, be personable. smile a lot.
