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learning by ear

#21
Tell him you need a recording or the chords changes.
You can learn a lot by watching his hands to find the chords.
I recommend trying to pick-up songs on a CD by ear until you can do it on the fly - in your case keep going until you can play along to songs without bass guitars.
 
#22
"""As for calling people who can't hear exactly whats being played "pathetic" or "sub-par" the same could be said about a guitarist who doesn't have a basic enough understanding of what he is playing to know that its in A minor. You may have spent the past 2 years in the basement trying to play albums by ear and me the past 2 years in music theory class, doesn't make either one of us less of a musician, we both understand the same thing in two different ways, so lets cut the crap.""

excellent points----I have a guitarist in my band who not only writes without knowing the keys or chords but also doesn't provide a recording so I can figure it out between practices rather than "as he's playing it". When necessary I can figure out stuff by ear but it's always faster when I know the progression.

personally, if given a choice of one or the other, I'd take the guy that knows his chords/keys over a guy that "thinks" he's great at figuring things out by ear when he's really not.

In every band I've been in, the ones where everyone could name the keys and chords they are in (and not rely on earballing it) are the ones where the material was learned the fastest and most accurately.

If going by ear was as easy as some think--why is it that multiple tabs of the same cover songs are so often completely different? When learning a song I usually figure it out by ear--then check my interpretation against whatever tab or chord charts I can find to see how others interpreted the song.
 
#23
What an amazing topic to stumble upon just as I was pondering over similar issues I am having with my band. I have a decent amount of theory knowledge, and yet both my guitarists have none, and it frustrates the hell out of me when they can't even tell me the key of what they are playing, much less the chords or progression. I hope to one day be able to play by ear, but honestly those who ear play and can't communicate any theory have things to learn as well.

On this topic, I would like any suggestions or tips on how to train myself to play by ear or train my ears or whatever you want to call it? Do I really just sit with a cd and not leave until I figure it out or what? Please feel free to PM me or respond to this topic with help! Thanks fellow TBers!
 
#25
If there are more than three chords for the chorus and three for the verse than I really try to demand the chords. Always having a pen and paper to quickly write it down large enough to site read while your playing is a good idea.

It used to bother me when people would be reluctant to say the chord changes. I would think they were arrogant asses. Really though as my ear has progressed I realize how much better off I am continuing to better my ear.

I like Ear Master and Sofledge as far as ear training programs go.

Cheers
 
#26
Try to sing the notes of the the pitches you hear. not with just these 3 songs but with the bass part in EVERY song you listen to. get those songs you need to have down in a week or w/e and listen to them in the morning, after noon, evening, before bed, in the car and sing those bass parts hear it in your head and and then pick up a bass and keep the melody singing in your mind/hum it and start to find the notes.

if you can't find all the notes, but some, write it down. wether you can write bass clef, tab, or w/e Find a way to notate it down, best scenario would to break it up into 4/4 bars, and write where each note lands on the beat or off beat and go back to the parts you don't know.


I've been struggling with this as well.

my buddy is so good its like he doesn't know what it is like to not know what to play, and he doesn't communicate well, often times i get " I'm not a music teacher learn it your self" and he gives me an attitude. really aggrevating. I mean he has the knowledge and talent, if he could take a more constructive approach and be like "hey man, maybe try moving up a half step" or "hey man you're playing the note in this certain part wrong, play a C instead of that B!" and not "dude stop playing the same fuking wrong stuff" my "band" would get somewhere.

I myself, play bass but i also dabble a bit on guitar and recently keys, so when i'm jamming with other people who aren't nearly as talented, and say they don't know the chords to a bassline but i do I let them know and then we have a good time jamming and we sound good.

it really goes to show that doesn't matter how talented a guitarist is he will make the band function like crap if he has a big ego and can't communicate(i guess anyone in a band can do that but its always the damn expert guitard in my experience),
 
#27
When the guitarist doesn't know any theory & has spent years coming up with their own technique, playing with them is like learning another dialect. You understand some of what's being "said" by their instrument but not all of it, and when you go for what you think they're doing, it turns out to be all wrong because they're playing all the "wrong" chords.

A major problem with this isn't always their lack of knowledge, it's the lack of the ability of the theory we've been taught so rigorously as being the One True Way to cope with music that sounds good, but doesn't seem to follow the rules.

I actually think music would grow considerably if more people trusted their ears more and the books less.

Back to the main point - different people learn in different ways. Your guitarist is probably just expecting people to learn like they do.
 
#28
Maybe its just my experience but the vast majority of guitarists I meet seems to know nothing about what they are playing, and expect the bassist to be able to read their minds...I call this "jimi syndrom"

Guitarists sit in their rooms and play solos all day developing their technique and melody...they don't worry about communicating with everyone else cause their job is to go crazy out in front. If they like their sound nothing stops them from making it...It seems to always fall on the bassist to figure out what the guitar is doing, and most of the time he is too busy noodling to care.

I always knew bass was support from day one, what I never realized was that it seems to be the bassists job to understand the guitarist and the drummer, more than it is their job to understand the bassist (although I guess that would be different if I was writing the songs)... and more and more that it is coming down to my ability to hear exactly what they are doing. We may not play chords but what is more difficult, playing chords or figuring out *** everyone else is doing?
 
#29
DudeistMonk said:
Maybe its just my experience but the vast majority of guitarists I meet seems to know nothing about what they are playing, and expect the bassist to be able to read their minds...I call this "jimi syndrom"

Guitarists sit in their rooms and play solos all day developing their technique and melody...they don't worry about communicating with everyone else cause their job is to go crazy out in front. If they like their sound nothing stops them from making it...It seems to always fall on the bassist to figure out what the guitar is doing, and most of the time he is too busy noodling to care.

I always knew bass was support from day one, what I never realized was that it seems to be the bassists job to understand the guitarist and the drummer, more than it is their job to understand the bassist (although I guess that would be different if I was writing the songs)... and more and more that it is coming down to my ability to hear exactly what they are doing. We may not play chords but what is more difficult, playing chords or figuring out *** everyone else is doing?
Click to expand...

+ a million
 
#30
Let's remember he's new at playing, and asking for the chords to learn three songs in a week and a half is not at all out of line.

Yes, OP, you should learn to pick songs out by ear, but it's likely your friend doesn't know enough about theory to know what he's playing. And if he did, it might not even make theoretical sense (not to say it doesn't sound good, mind you).

Looks like you're stuck to learn it by ear though, so get off TB and get learning! :)
 
#31
Sorry, but this is ridiculous. As a musician you should be able to find the key and figure out the chord changes. Relying on others to tell you the changes is like using crutches when you're in perfect health - it helps you with something you should just normally be able to do. Don't have an ear? You're not doing to develop one with people always telling you what to play. It sounds harsh but come on, it's not the rest of the band's job to babysit you.

And I agree that he might be testing you for skills and dedication. I likely wouldn't want to play with anyone who couldn't figure their parts out on their own.

edit: I also recommend that you learn to figure out what your bandmates are playing by watching as well
 
#32
EADG mx said:
Sorry, but this is ridiculous. As a musician you should be able to find the key and figure out the chord changes. Relying on others to tell you the changes is like using crutches when you're in perfect health - it helps you with something you should just normally be able to do. Don't have an ear? You're not doing to develop one with people always telling you what to play. It sounds harsh but come on, it's not the rest of the band's job to babysit you.

And I agree that he might be testing you for skills and dedication. I likely wouldn't want to play with anyone who couldn't figure their parts out on their own.

edit: I also recommend that you learn to figure out what your bandmates are playing by watching as well
Click to expand...

Forget what it was like being young an inexperienced, do you? There's more to know (and learn) about playing music than being able to hear what the changes are - being able to hear *where* they are for example - and everybody learns differently, some people need to jump in with the band, and it helps in that case to have some points of reference.

I'd leave immediately if I thought someone was arrogant enough to "test" me on anything!!! Opportunities to play abound everywhere, and life's too short to deal with prima donnas.
 
#34
projectMalamute said:
When I was inexperienced I was playing with other people who were inexperienced, or in the school bands. If everyone else in the band can get their parts together by ear and the OP needs a chart he may not be ready for this band.
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It sounds like his guitar player is pretty inexperienced to me if he can't tell the bass player what chords he's playing. :)

If he knows and just won't tell, he's being a d**k.

When I was young and inexperienced I was blessed to be able to play with some very experienced guitar players who were all very patient with me - although I could read music like it was English, my ear was horrible because my experience to that point was playing in school orchestra and band - all reading. Those guys taught me what chords were by playing with them, and them telling me what they were doing. I'm sure it was frustrating for them, but they kept doing it.

My point - if this guitar player knows and won't tell, take a walk and play with someone who's not such a joke. If he doesn't know, then hey - maybe this is the OP's opportunity to be the patient instructor!
 
#35
My first assumption when I read the OP was that the guitarist simply didn't know enough to communicate what he was doing, and covered it up by suggesting you pick it up by ear.

Really, I can't imagine ever trying to force a prospective bandmate to learn a song by ear. I'd hand them a chart so they can get it down sooner and not have any mistaken ideas about what the song needs. Just saves time and gets things going faster. I just don't see how demanding that bandmates learn by ear benefits the project at all. From a teacher? sure! as a personal exercise to build ear training? You betcha! But an efficient way to communicate ideas to other players? hardly.

When I do have to learn a song by ear, the first thing I do is get a recording into my ipod for easy stop n rewind, and bust out the staff paper, and write a chart for it (with my bass in hand too of course)
 
#36
It's not always as easy as it would seems. I've learned around 60 songs in the last year, but for one of the songs in this little medley we're doing, I was struggling. The guitarist helped me out, and as it turns out, almost all of the bass part was harmony. I did even think to look in that direction, but with two songs like that under my belt, I have another trick to learning songs. If you're really struggling, ask for help, but at least make an attempt to learn it yourself.
 
#37
BillMason said:
Forget what it was like being young an inexperienced, do you? There's more to know (and learn) about playing music than being able to hear what the changes are - being able to hear *where* they are for example - and everybody learns differently, some people need to jump in with the band, and it helps in that case to have some points of reference.

I'd leave immediately if I thought someone was arrogant enough to "test" me on anything!!! Opportunities to play abound everywhere, and life's too short to deal with prima donnas.
Click to expand...


Not at all actually, I played for the longest time having everything pretty much spoonfed to me. My ear was also terrible. I understand what you're saying, but I don't see any reason why you shouldn't get started on ear training right away.


And I can understand if someone was testing my abilities. You want to play with good musicians too, don't you?
 
#39
mambo4 said:
My first assumption when I read the OP was that the guitarist simply didn't know enough to communicate what he was doing, and covered it up by suggesting you pick it up by ear.

Really, I can't imagine ever trying to force a prospective bandmate to learn a song by ear. I'd hand them a chart so they can get it down sooner and not have any mistaken ideas about what the song needs. Just saves time and gets things going faster. I just don't see how demanding that bandmates learn by ear benefits the project at all. From a teacher? sure! as a personal exercise to build ear training? You betcha! But an efficient way to communicate ideas to other players? hardly.

When I do have to learn a song by ear, the first thing I do is get a recording into my ipod for easy stop n rewind, and bust out the staff paper, and write a chart for it (with my bass in hand too of course)
Click to expand...

Lots of excellent musicians don't read music. I have no problem working with musicians who would not be able to learn something from a chart. I would never work with someone who is unable to learn something from a recording. People who can do either are nice to have around.

I don't think my outlook is all that rare.
 
#40
I think that it's the smart move to use EVERY tool at your disposal.
ears, charts, clef, books, tabs, videos, (talking to the songwriter), ect..

Using everything you got to the best of your ability will yield the fastest results. It doesn't matter if it's playing music, finding a job, picking up chicks, whatever.
 

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