learning by ear

[Seussbass]

Ear training is important, but so is enjoying your crafts or hobbies along the way to developing a golden ear -which yours must certainly be, no doubt Mozart himself would marvel at your ability to identify Gb9 chords in the vacuum of space.

I'm reminded of that episode of The Wonder Years where Kevin Arnold joins a rock group & they're asked to play at someone's house party. The closing quote from the episode was "We weren't going to be good, but we were going to be loud."

Next you'll be telling me ugly people don't deserve to have sex...

First off you totally misquoted me. I never said that they didn't deserve to be in a band, I said that they might not be ready.

Get the hell off of your high horse and read what I said. An ear is an essential tool, and people have been booted out of bands for far less. It can be a difficult thing to do, training your ear, but it's just as necessary as learning right/left hand techinique.

 

[Ten Four One]

First off you totally misquoted me. I never said that they didn't deserve to be in a band, I said that they might not be ready.

Get the hell off of your high horse and read what I said. An ear is an essential tool, and people have been booted out of bands for far less. It can be a difficult thing to do, training your ear, but it's just as necessary as learning right/left hand techinique.

If he's playing with people far above his ability level - whether it's his ear or his technique then sure, he'll probably be booted out, or otherwise made miserable.

If he's playing with people at or near his ability level, or people above his ability level who have the patience, then who are you to tell him if he's ready or not?

 

[Seussbass]

I never told him to leave the band, I said that it would be a good idea to figure the songs out and practice using his ear.

He'd be doing himself way more favours than just thinking that the guitarist was treating him unfairly.

 

[Shishkbob]

I don't have the best of ears for learning new stuff, it is a work in progress. when my band first started the guitarist would give me the roots and i would write around them. I have gotten better at finding them without help.

There are times when we make up chords and really can't figure out what the root is without messing around trying to find it. It is possible that this might be a simular situation. They might not know the chords or roots of what they are playing.

Just plug away at bro, you will get it. the first song that i had to learn by ear was Link Removed As a new bass player, it scared the tar out of me. I just plugged away for a month till it got it. Two years later the guitarist noticed that i was playing a major shape over a minor, we laughed, i had to buy him a beer so he wouldn't make fun of me, much.

 

[Ten Four One]

I never told him to leave the band, I said that it would be a good idea to figure the songs out and practice using his ear.

He'd be doing himself way more favours than just thinking that the guitarist was treating him unfairly.

I apologize if I offended you or misquoted you. We both just want what's best for the OP, and we both believe he should work on his ear. Let's just leave at that. Cool?

I don't have the best of ears for learning new stuff, it is a work in progress. when my band first started the guitarist would give me the roots and i would write around them. I have gotten better at finding them without help.

There are times when we make up chords and really can't figure out what the root is without messing around trying to find it. It is possible that this might be a simular situation. They might not know the chords or roots of what they are playing.

Just plug away at bro, you will get it. the first song that i had to learn by ear was Link Removed As a new bass player, it scared the tar out of me. I just plugged away for a month till it got it. Two years later the guitarist noticed that i was playing a major shape over a minor, we laughed, i had to buy him a beer so he wouldn't make fun of me, much.

Man, I thought for sure that was going to be a rickroll.

"Two years later the guitarist noticed that i was playing a major shape over a minor, we laughed, i had to buy him a beer so he wouldn't make fun of me, much."

He noticed the SHAPE and not the SOUND of the major you were playing and you still had to buy him a beer?

Transcribing is amazingly good for your ears. It's also something I find much easier on bass than on guitar... We only have to figure out one not at a time!

 

[mambo4]

Lots of excellent musicians don't read music. I have no problem working with musicians who would not be able to learn something from a chart. I would never work with someone who is unable to learn something from a recording. People who can do either are nice to have around.

Just to be clear, when I speak of "charts" I really mean chord charts, and not necessarily notated parts. It could even be a post it note with the chords written on it.

Recall that The OP's original gripe was that he was asked to learn a song and rebuked for asking what the chords were. It seems foolish to be unwilling to tell him because its faster than making him work it out by ear

even beginners can learn from a recording, if given enough time. And i agree completely that ear training has tremendous value, and is not a skill to overlook. But If I have to learn 30 songs in two weeks, I wont be transcribing from recordings...I'll get the charts.

My one and only point is that it's more efficient to just tell your band mates what the chords are than to wait for them to figure it out. The exception being that if their ears are so insanely good that they can pick out the harmony flawlessly off the bat.

 

[Ten Four One]

Just to be clear, when I speak of "charts" I really mean chord charts, and not necessarily notated parts. It could even be a post it note with the chords written on it.

Recall that The OP's original gripe was that he was asked to learn a song and rebuked for asking what the chords were. It seems foolish to be unwilling to tell him because its faster than making him work it out by ear

even beginners can learn from a recording, if given enough time. And i agree completely that ear training has tremendous value, and is not a skill to overlook. But If I have to learn 30 songs in two weeks, I wont be transcribing from recordings...I'll get the charts.

My one and only point is that it's more efficient to just tell your band mates what the chords are than to wait for them to figure it out. The exception being that if their ears are so insanely good that they can pick out the harmony flawlessly off the bat.

+1 Even the guy with perfect hearing may not get it right the first time out - since he's never heard the song before.

Session musicians get chord charts, so what's the big deal about the OP getting chord charts?

 

[bassbully]

This threads a hoot. You have a Tber here who says he's played for over 20years and never expects to go into a new song getting the notes ,keys or chords told to him that he will figure it out by ear Good luck pulling that off with expensive studio time. All anyone needs is simple chord charts a key and or called out chord progressions...please.

The OP was right all he wanted is to get the chords for the song .Why couldnt he? I guess the dude who wrote it couldnt read or understand a lick of music and doesnt know simple scales or even his fretboard. I hate playing music with players like that..learn your fretboard and a few scales.It kinda like working with a carpenter who cant read a tape. If your going to do somthing learn to do the simple things at least. In this case its not to much to ask anyone who writes a song the key or chords..it makes learning the song faster and communication easy. I can transpose by ear anything but tell me the chord or write it out and i'll kill it in half the time.

 

[phektus]

Oh, you poor boy! They should have said the chords or scales for you. Your time is very important and they should have cut it short. See, what's the use of learning songs by ear? The important thing is the result, and the result is that you play. I feel for you man, real pity. People here should understand how much of a musical child you are, that you should be spoon fed early on. Why waste time on learning songs by ear? Totally ridiculous. Plus we don't have to use our ears to play music, we just need to use it to recognize a good tone coming from our pedal board. I'm a musician, and musicians play songs off written stuff, some by standard notation which is also boring. So the rest of the band had to adjust with me. I'm the bassist, tell them that.







Of course I'm being sarcastic as always. Stop griping, learn it by ear, and when you get good, just hand them something unwritten and see if they can 'learn it by ear' themselves. Payback is a b$#@$

 

[Shishkbob]

Man, I thought for sure that was going to be a rickroll.

"Two years later the guitarist noticed that i was playing a major shape over a minor, we laughed, i had to buy him a beer so he wouldn't make fun of me, much."

He noticed the SHAPE and not the SOUND of the major you were playing and you still had to buy him a beer?

First he noticed the sound, but any excuse to have a beer is good .

Not to leave you hangin' Rick Roll ==> Invalid Link Removed <==

 

[Ten Four One]

First he noticed the sound, but any excuse to have a beer is good .

Not to leave you hangin' Rick Roll ==> Invalid Link Removed <==

Amen to that brother - any excuse to have a beer is a good excuse.

 

[ThunderLizard]

Tremor-
Some good advice above. Maybe they don't write out their songs, even with root notes. If they don't, then the learning curve is going to be extended.
I've joined several bands that played some original songs. I usually gave them a listen until I was familiar with them. I then tried to meet with the guitarist/songwriter for a quick session before the rehearsal. Then I went back and did some more woodshedding on the songs.
But I also put it in the proper perspective and priority. Family/Job/School first!

 

[bassbully]

Oh, you poor boy! They should have said the chords or scales for you. Your time is very important and they should have cut it short. See, what's the use of learning songs by ear? The important thing is the result, and the result is that you play. I feel for you man, real pity. People here should understand how much of a musical child you are, that you should be spoon fed early on. Why waste time on learning songs by ear? Totally ridiculous. Plus we don't have to use our ears to play music, we just need to use it to recognize a good tone coming from our pedal board. I'm a musician, and musicians play songs off written stuff, some by standard notation which is also boring. So the rest of the band had to adjust with me. I'm the bassist, tell them that.







Of course I'm being sarcastic as always. Stop griping, learn it by ear, and when you get good, just hand them something unwritten and see if they can 'learn it by ear' themselves. Payback is a b$#@$

Wow...great advice..i bet your easy to get along with in a band Please if you can write a song you can tell a new member the chords or write them out a chart. Is it that hard? Or is it a big secret and by doing so makes you a team player and makes them tuff it out. It really has nothing to do when learning a new song or material about learning by ear. Its about getting a new player to mesh and get on board in comfort not by making them seek out the tunes wasting time getting the music down.

I joined a new band and the bandleader has alot of originals from years of albums he's done. I had to learn 8-10 quickly to get on board as well as 40 covers plus alot of songs i already knew before. He was cool wrote out anything i need supplied CDs and i nailed em all in a practice or two. Yea he could of been a jerk and say hey learn them by ear but he's a pro and wanted me on board quickly and for me to gel with the band. I dont see the big deal here my thoughts are the guys in the OP dont know what a scale is or what notes or chords they are even playing and are to ashamed to admit it.

 

[lexxmexx]

I have difficulty memorizing songs, so have to transcribe the songs into sheets and play off them at jam sessions.

I remember a guitarist looking at me with shock and asked "you mean you can't play by ear?" I was like...***! I am a sax-to-bass convert, so this happened when I was playing the sax then. Yeah, this is not relevant to TB but still about d**k musicians in general.

 

[EADG mx]

And if you fail the test, will you be playing with them? I want to play with people who aren't d**ks.

It's not always about being a dick. I wouldn't withhold information like that just to watch my bandmates suffer and laugh at them.

I can understand giving a new musician or potential bandmate an assignment or test like that. Anyone can tell you they have a great ear and that they're really dedicating to practicing the stuff on their own - but what good is that? Asking someone to figure out a song on their own is proof of their abilities and dedication. If you're auditioning musicians, you typically want to test their abilities don't you? What better way to do it than with something practical?

Although someone's ear is not the only thing I'd want to test someone on. I'd also be watching for their sound, taste, image, attitude, how well they can follow, reading ability, etc. It's all part of the audition process.

If auditioning or testing someone is being a dick, let me ask you this: why does the audition process exist? Why do resumes exist? Why do RCM grades exist? Degrees and diplomas? Why do people give references to a potential employer?

Talk only gets you so far, sometimes you just need credentials.

 

[MtManiac]

It's not always about being a dick. I wouldn't withhold information like that just to watch my bandmates suffer and laugh at them.

I can understand giving a new musician or potential bandmate an assignment or test like that. Anyone can tell you they have a great ear and that they're really dedicating to practicing the stuff on their own - but what good is that? Asking someone to figure out a song on their own is proof of their abilities and dedication. If you're auditioning musicians, you typically want to test their abilities don't you? What better way to do it than with something practical?

Although someone's ear is not the only thing I'd want to test someone on. I'd also be watching for their sound, taste, image, attitude, how well they can follow, reading ability, etc. It's all part of the audition process.

If auditioning or testing someone is being a dick, let me ask you this: why does the audition process exist? Why do resumes exist? Why do RCM grades exist? Degrees and diplomas? Why do people give references to a potential employer?

Talk only gets you so far, sometimes you just need credentials.

Well, there's taking everything at face value, and then there's taking nothing at face value. The world I prefer to live in exists somewhere in between.

 

[funkydanbass]

I always make it a point to transcribe everything for a new band. I wouldn't feel prepared for the actual audition and I wouldn't feel like I was doing myself justice if I didn't. What kind of creative input will you be able to have if you don't 'own' the song? Not just chords either! Form, melody, dynamics, rhythmic figures etc.

If your ears are open, there's no secrets. If you've got a recording of the song you've got everything you need. I'm not saying that you'll transcribe the tune perfectly. But in attempting to, you'll obtain a deep understanding of the song and most likely form some solid ideas for your bassline.

 

[Bassist4Life]

Get yourself a program like Audacity. It's free.

You can import an mp3 and highlight a part of the song and loop it. If you're having a hard time hearing the bass part, you can transpose the recording up an octave. Sometimes this makes it easier to hear the bass parts.

Also, if you're having trouble hearing one isolated note, you can zoom in on the wave and highlight that one note. Loop it and find the pitch on your bass.

You can also use Audacity to slow down the song. Bass can sound all broken up if you slow it down too much, so you can transpose it up an octave before you slow it down.

Audacity has helped me a lot. Best of luck to you.

Joe

 

[Ten Four One]

+1 Audacity & everything he said. Another thing about going an octave up, if you're looking for the key, you can kanoodle over the song an octave up or even on a guitar & typically zoom in on things a heck of a lot faster than in the lower registers.

 

[BrandonBass]

LoL i always play what i hear in my head, works most of the time