So you need to use all scale tones if you are a "scale player"? Do you have to use all chord tones if you are a "chord tone" player? You can call that c in your example anything you want. It is a scale tone. You could also call it a non chord tone. It's all how you think about it. I don't care if you are a "scale" or a "chord tone" player, I'm a bass player.
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Learning scales
- Thread starter jostego
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So you need to use all scale tones if you are a "scale player"? Do you have to use all chord tones if you are a "chord tone" player? You can call that c in your example anything you want. It is a scale tone. You could also call it a non chord tone. It's all how you think about it. I don't care if you are a "scale" or a "chord tone" player, I'm a bass player.
An Arpegio is to play the notes one after another.....it has nothing to do with what notes are used. If you arpegiate a chord you are playing the notes one after another, so you are playing the notes defining the chord......which are the tones......therefore you must be playing chord tones
It's origin as I know it is related to classical music, the Italian word "arpeggiare", which means "to play on a harp."....it is informing the player to play the chord as single notes as in a melody, not as a chord as in harmony.
It is a technique, not any series of notes. Arpeggiare written on a pianist score tell them how to play the notes, not what to play.
Since chords and chord tones are the same thing its like saying "he was shot twice with two bullets"......
It's basic information being re-invented to sound clever to those that know no better..... listen to musicians talking about a song, they talk about the chords of G Am D7 etc..not the chord tones of G Am D7.
You see it is this basic mis-use creates problems, when those that do not realise that terms already exist to describe what the want to present....again its about not having all the information.
If you only pick out what you want you will run into problems......as this thread is proving when an isolated knowledge comes up against a combined knowledge.
Fergie your terminology of arpeggios is a series of notes might be misinterpreted.
Isn't a melody line of a song a series of notes? This is not considered an arpeggio.
And please folks, talk about shifting subjects, we have now gone from a scales and chord tone discussion to psycoanalayzing terms.
Isn't a melody line of a song a series of notes? This is not considered an arpeggio.
And please folks, talk about shifting subjects, we have now gone from a scales and chord tone discussion to psycoanalayzing terms.
The problem is not that people don't like your perspective, the problem is that you really don't know what you are talking about and are spreading misinformation. I can say that from my perspective the moon is made of green cheese, but that doesn't make it either true or a valid point of view.
You can post and argue all you want but that won't make it true.
Thanks man
OP: Bass Grimoire book is scale/pattern/chart heaven if you don't find anything else. Since you are new consider the DVD as well: Carl Fischer Bass Grimoire Book & DVD Package Well worth the $ for honing in on what you describe. IME scales and ear first, build up your muscle and note memory as a foundation. Being a drummer you should have timing nailed. Theory can come later if needed and desired. Good luck!
Chad now we are getting somewhere.
If a pianist has the term, arpeggiare, noted next to chords that his left hand had been playing in supporting the melody, what do you think is being asked of him?.......how are they being asked to play the chords differently?
I like Pacman's scale study.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f22/pacmans-sure-fire-scale-practice-method-50170/
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f22/pacmans-sure-fire-scale-practice-method-50170/
So as not to muddy my previous question, a melody is not considered an arpeggio, how anyone could reason that as a valid point is beyond the realms of music education my friend.
Yes they will be mis-interpreted by those that do not know better, or have gaps in their knowledge.....like you are doing, but not by qualified musicians, many of who you are talking to.
What we are doing is not psychoanalysing terms, just supplying you with the correct definitions of them in certain musical circumstances....we are filling the gaps in your knowledge so you teach the correct ideas.
Just saying...
Please at least understand the words you're using: "An arpeggio is a musical technique where notes in a chord are played or sung in sequence, one after the other, rather than ringing out simultaneously".
Look the word up in any dictionary, and you'll find a similar explanation, though you really should know this already. I could say some chords are made up of non-chord tones, and the statement would be equally stupid.
Regardless of what you say, you have insulted nearly everyone here in the manner in which you speak to people (many of whom are much better and more experienced musicians than you). You preach your position like some demented Southern Baptist Preacher speaking in tongues and jumping in snake pits. Nobody has said that harmony - or chord tone arpeggio tone notes (sic) - isn't important - that would be as stupid as saying that scales aren't important. I pity your students, they're on a hiding to nowhere.
Well, I thought I had instant e-mail notification on this thread, so imagine my surprise when checking in after the weekend. I'd like to thank the people who tried to educate me. And well, all that other stuff was entertaining as well. I've heard about how music theory is a subject that some musicians can get quite worked up over. I guess that's true.
This week I sat down with a friend of mine, who plays keys and guitar. We had a couple of beers and talked about... well, theory I guess (don't kill me). He gave me some homework: Playing open to 12th fret and up again on all strings while singing the names of the notes. Also we talked about intervals, and... dear I say it... chords. He wanted me to learn what the 5th of, for instance, a G is, that the note is an D, the interval is a quint (or powerchord) and so on.
So like a good teacher he wrote down some stuff for me that he wanted me to practice. He felt that I should familiarize myself with the fretboard and the notes chromatically and look at intervals before working on scales.
This week I sat down with a friend of mine, who plays keys and guitar. We had a couple of beers and talked about... well, theory I guess (don't kill me). He gave me some homework: Playing open to 12th fret and up again on all strings while singing the names of the notes. Also we talked about intervals, and... dear I say it... chords. He wanted me to learn what the 5th of, for instance, a G is, that the note is an D, the interval is a quint (or powerchord) and so on.
So like a good teacher he wrote down some stuff for me that he wanted me to practice. He felt that I should familiarize myself with the fretboard and the notes chromatically and look at intervals before working on scales.
Wait a minute ifmn16...not like my perspective and spreading misinformation? Fair enough that u don't like my perspective but let's focus on chord tone arpeggios. There is nothing wrong or incorrect about that statement. Carol Kaye as well as Ray Brown, etc., players like that have confirmed that players in the 40s and 50s didn't play scale patterns, what she means is that They didn't SEE it around scales, but rather chord tones. Any old jazz player on the circuit would agree. Pat Methany states in an interview as well as Carol states that scale players don't really sit in the harmony but float above it. That is a true statement with tons of young musicians today. Also, teaching the chord tone arpeggios, a term used by Mike Stern, Jeff Robinson, Carol Kaye, Pat Metheny, etc., is a true statement. Are u honestly going to debate them? And finally, please stop making me the enemy. I have stated I'm sorry for not stating things carefully without sounding brash. I will say that I have worked with a lot of musicians from jazz to rock and everything in between, and many students end up saying, Wow!..chord tone arpeggios are great and they go on to state that they never saw playing around that perspective. I then tell them that this is the approach of the way musicians use to approach the instrument but is a dying art. Students then go on to say that the chord tone arpeggio approach is so simple and wonder why they haven't been taught this approach before. I simply state that everyone has scales on their brains and many teachers don't teach it simply because they just don't know.
after reading all of groovemasters arrogance here, i would NEVER support groove 101. soon as i hear someone say they are "master" of anything..im turned off.. Talkbass is so full of "theory masters" who probably make a modest living playing roots and 5ths. "people" here will..check on another members age or volume of posts or location or whatever trivial bit of info they can find before they'll even respond to a "newb" or what they consider a troll. im no "master", but i am a fulltime working musician. i really dont care about starting a thousand threads, that goes to 6 or more pages, or who "likes" a vid of me playing in my bedroom on youtube or of me standing on stage, frozen in place, boringly playing with my crappy bluesband. cheers
Well said Calbo, I got jumped by almost the entire room by offering up chord tone arpeggios as an approach to playing. I know my first comment was a bit brash and I have apologized for that but still the room wants a villian and apparently I'm that. One guy posted my Facebook page, told everyone the city I live in. A bit scary getting stalked.
lmao, theres seems to be a "cult" following here..i came to literally get info on chords/scales..and i get a "groovemaster.. and "well chad, when you sell as many books or get as many facebook likes as me...blah blah.." as if jamerson or jaco or clarke or wooten has never lived, breathed, and played bass guitar..ive NEVER heard them refer to themselves as masters. ive met wooten, he's AWESOME! he didnt shoot anybodydown that day because he has youtube hits or a talkbass avatar (ive yet to meet a musician whos heard of talkbass personally).
No, you got jumped for insisting that one approach and a part of a much larger theoretical system is paramount and uniquely important.
Listening to the others involved is as important in a conversation as in a musical performance.
Listen to what people are saying, and embrace the intellectual rigour that will help you describe things in a way people will understand and you will be forever popular and a hero to all.
Shout over the heads of everyone and you will reap the whirlwind and be forever a focal point for abuse.
One drop, u made me out to say that. The original poster posts a comment which I gave my input to him, then was jumped by everyone else. My comments were really just a conversation between he and I. I know it's a forum but u technically jumped me for my views.
It's also funny one drop how u state listening to others. The last time I checked I stated chord tone arpeggios and all of YOU GUYS were unwilling to listen and quickly tried to dismiss it. So u are the one not letting other people share thoughts.
It's also funny one drop how u state listening to others. The last time I checked I stated chord tone arpeggios and all of YOU GUYS were unwilling to listen and quickly tried to dismiss it. So u are the one not letting other people share thoughts.
Now you are learning Chad, you are in an open form, which means that what you take as being the norm...is not...as this previous post shows.
Chad.....you do realise you are on the web?
This means anyone with a Internet connection can read what you write.
Chad, go to the bars of Belgium, France or Northern Holland, and it is very much alive....as it is in many parts of Europe.
Go to the Latin Counties and it is very much alive.
Listen to Afro beat music, well just listen to lots of music....not chart music, that as any professional musician knows and understands is not a reflection of music, but of commercialism and market forces.
Maybe its a dying art where you are, but where you are is not the world.
Think about this if you and others are diluting the education, then maybe you are all to blame for the problems you are finding in your own area?
Again..just saying
this may be a tad off-topic, but ugh! it gets on my nerves when tb members "abuse" that quote feature. i mean, the op might make a very long-winded post, then some other guy'll copy and paste the entire "document", and simply add " +1" at the end of it! why would you re-post something that took me 17 flicks of the finger to scroll all the way though, the n have the audacity to not even offer a bit of your knowledge or sarcasm into the continuum ,just..."+1".
all you +1 people owe us sooo much more. you owe it to yourself as well.
all you +1 people owe us sooo much more. you owe it to yourself as well.
