Dying art comment is playing and seeing things around a chord tones. I dont care if u are from Latin America, europe or Africa. Chord tones are not just pop music. U can play any style of music by seeing around the chords. The magic of this approach is that the harder the music, the easier it is to approach it around seeing chord tones.
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Learning scales
- Thread starter jostego
- Start date
I've been following this thread since the beginning (thanks to the new app) and even responded to you about scalar use in modal jazz, but you never responded.
I know some guys get rough around here, but that is the way of the internet I guess lol.
You kept on saying that guys in the 40's and 50's played with more emphasis on chord tones. That peaked my interest and I couldn't tell why. Then it hit me! I have a book by Mark Levine called "The Jazz Piano Book"where he talks about just that. I'll paraphrase:
He talks about early jazz musicians looking at a lead sheet as a series of chords, and the only notes available were the notes that make up the chord. Any other notes were "wrong".
Levine later goes on to say that when be bop came along soloists started to look at each chord (and groups of chords) within a tune and see what notes were available to them. They started to use scales as a pool of available notes they can draw upon to create the desired effect. Later Miles Davis expanded upon the scalar approach when he started writing tunes that would have one chord played over several bars.
Levine even wrote an exercise called 'the never ending scale exercise" where you analyze a tune's chord structure to determine what scales can be played and you connect them from whatever Niue you last played.
I guess my point is that you are right about chords being used as three basis of improvisation by older generations, but fail to realize that the use of scales as an improvisational tool came about as an evolution in music.
Fergie, my dying art comment is approaching playing from chord tone arpeggios. I don't care what continent u are on. It's not only my opinion it's the opinion of many famous old musicians such as Kaye, etc.
Wrong. You got jumped for claiming that "scales have no place in the real world":
(The emphasis is mine.)
Very few people here have any serious quarrel with using chord tones as an approach to playing.
Fmoore, try and understand, knowing your chord tone arpeggios helps make complicated music easy. Jazz is one of the most complicated forms of music and the old cats without college degrees and music theory classes play this with ease. Why? Because they know their chord tone arpeggios and the chromatic notes around them.
And that is becoming your problem Chad, you don't care where we come from. Look at the top right of the post, you will see a town and country of origin for those that have taking the time to fill it in.....you are talking to the world from your own perspective.
You never been bothered to answer the simple question I asked you about arpeggios, so you are being seen to pick the points that support your philosophy's, the more you duck out of questions.
You may even believe you are in some sort of big controversy, but look at the facts. Look at the numbers that have viewed the thread, look at those that have replied, look at those that are repeat replies, then compare that to the number of TB members. You will work out very fast that very few are against you, because most of TB has no opinions on the matter, or know where this thread is going and how it will end.
Get things in perspective and use a language and meaning that is relevant, because English is not the first language of everyone on TB, so you may be taken as literal.
But if you do not care about such matters, you will end up using all your energies fighting a corner, rather than getting your points over, you will in fact be swamped out of the threads by the weight of dealing with detractors or correcting ideas mis-understood.
Think about where you are and who is reading what you write....they are not all American, and they are certainly not all local to you in Lebanon, PA
I would've thought this would be covered thoroughly here but I couldn't find what I'm looking for.
I'm a drummer who recently picked up bass. I think learning bass will make me a better drummer and musician in general. Also, bass is awesome.
One goal I have, is to learn the major, minor and pentatonic scales in all finger positions on the fretboard, maybe move on to modes after a while. I've found this:
G major
...which is great.
Now I know that the pattern is the same for all notes, with a sequence of half and whole steps, but telling me (übern00b) that "when you know the major scale for one root, you know them all" isn't good enough.
So where can I find more pedagogic figures such as the one I linked to above? I would ideally like all finger positions for all roots and several types of scales.
Some information explaining how to transfer the intervals from one root to another, i.e. how to play A major without no other knowledge than how to play G major would be amazing.
If there is a book I could buy that contains this information I'd be super happy. If it's free on the web I'd be ecstatic
So, have we answered the OP's initial question?
this may be a tad off-topic, but ugh! it gets on my nerves when tb members "abuse" that quote feature. i mean, the op might make a very long-winded post, then some other guy'll copy and paste the entire "document", and simply add " +1" at the end of it! why would you re-post something that took me 17 flicks of the finger to scroll all the way though, the n have the audacity to not even offer a bit of your knowledge or sarcasm into the continuum ,just..."+1".all you +1 people owe us sooo much more. you owe it to yourself as well.
+1
Fergie it's hard to see your question when u type a long winded saga of a ranting reply. So just type me your question because honestly I don't know what u asked me.
Again, why do I have to look at your country, Kaye, Metheny, as well as many greats are making the observation. I've encountered with the students I meet. So all of musicians can't be wrong.
Again, why do I have to look at your country, Kaye, Metheny, as well as many greats are making the observation. I've encountered with the students I meet. So all of musicians can't be wrong.
Febs, you r a day late and a dollar short. I already stated that and have apologized for that opening comment. Truthfully the comment was made in a light sarcastic light but after I posted it, I realized that because this is social media, that u can't hear the reflections and tone of my voice.
Let me help u out. I'm only interested in further helping people learn chord tone arpeggios. I will start a thread of my own to discuss it further. I'm not interested in fighting and never was. I only wanted to discuss a particular way the jazz greats approach playing. So I bid u farewell. For those that are interested, look for a thread in the near future on chord tone arpeggios.
Let me help u out. I'm only interested in further helping people learn chord tone arpeggios. I will start a thread of my own to discuss it further. I'm not interested in fighting and never was. I only wanted to discuss a particular way the jazz greats approach playing. So I bid u farewell. For those that are interested, look for a thread in the near future on chord tone arpeggios.
Too much trouble to read your run-on streams of consciousness, too little benefit. A little tip for you - quit while you are behind. You don't seem to be able to express yourself in terms that others either understand or agree with. Either you are wrong, or everyone else is.
[/CLASS]
Ifmn, u are also a day late and a dollar short. I've already stated in the last post that I'm done on this thread and will start one of my own.
Chad it's post 186, posted as a stand alone question, so you could see the point I make. I will not re-post it so you can see it in context of the posts around it, just back track a page and follow the post numbers.....it is not a trick or a trap, but a question to which your answer will make you see a different reason for why Arpeggios are so.
As for saying I am ranting, no.....I am talking and I am giving you the courtesy and respect that everyone gets, please return that courtesy.
As for posts being long, they have to be because I am making sure I am not mis-understood.....because this is the world-wide web.
You don't, but then please start you posts, replies or observations with
" in America today....." So that the rest of the world does not get includes in the problems you are trying to correct. Be more specific as to what your target area is.
Fact is you have not visited other countries, so you have no experience of music education there, or any of the players standards, or the standard required to even play their music.....but you state to the world that "there are players doing this or doing that, music is a dying art, real professionals.." but what you mean is in America not the world at large.
I will check it out and get back to u. As far as respect....I haven't received any of that LOL.
IT'S okay that I haven't, all I ask is everyone be a little nicer. I know that's too difficult for many so I will start my own thread. I will get back to u with your question.
IT'S okay that I haven't, all I ask is everyone be a little nicer. I know that's too difficult for many so I will start my own thread. I will get back to u with your question.
IFMN I will keep my word, but I did tell Fergie I would answer his question. Fergie, if the piano player is asked to play arpeggios with his left hand instead of a block chord, then the pianist would do arpeggios. I'm trying to figure out why u asked the question, and through the entire long rant replies that everyone has, I'm guessing that u want to know how that works with chord tone arpeggios verses arpeggios of other notes?
U can make anything sound like what we know as arpeggio sound. U can do it with a chord and u can even take a series of non chord tones or scale degrees sound like arpeggios. U will probably throw the music dictionary term back saying that arpeggios are chord tones, but that is actually a generalization. The word chord is used loosely. The definition is based off basic harmony. In reality the term arpeggios have come to mean just a succession of notes that sound like an arpeggio or chord tone arpeggios.
U can make anything sound like what we know as arpeggio sound. U can do it with a chord and u can even take a series of non chord tones or scale degrees sound like arpeggios. U will probably throw the music dictionary term back saying that arpeggios are chord tones, but that is actually a generalization. The word chord is used loosely. The definition is based off basic harmony. In reality the term arpeggios have come to mean just a succession of notes that sound like an arpeggio or chord tone arpeggios.
You aren't listening. He is saying the practice you are recommending is commonplace in those styles of music.
Take a deep breath and LISTEN. And relax, I'm not jumping anyone.
