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Learning scales
- Thread starter jostego
- Start date
Groove Master
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- Apr 22, 2011
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I know exactly what you mean. This guy as No Notion of harmony and cannot play any other "colors" then chord-tones over a chord. He has no idea what the functional or optional extensions are over the chords. he seems like he is not aware of the concept of "Tension-Release".
And to continue even further down the list: What about all the great Blues players that plays exclusively the Blues scale as their main vocabulary! That alone is a masterpiece !!!
In my quest to end this conversation I have to add a comment to make sure everyone knows of your lies. At the end of this thread people are saying all i hit are chord tones and no other colors or non chord notes. SHOW ME WHERE I EVER SAID THAT! Look back on all my threads and you will see i never said any of that. I hit tones of NON chord tones in my playing, I use tons of chromatics but I SEE IT AROUND THE CHORD TONES, NOT scales. Now dont confuse my comment with 98 percent of all songs are chord tones, which is true. But in music I have control of tension and release because I see it as my focal point of CHORD TONE ARPEGGIOS and i STEP OUT side those changes. Dont confuse that with me saying scale people most times cant see the chord tones or play them.
Chad? You keep saying you're done, but you keep coming back. Here is what you simply DO NOT GET. We know about arpeggios and "chord tones" It's 90% of what we do. There is nothing new about it, and most of us learned it when we learned the scales that accompany.
But your presentation is ridiculous, and potentially counter-productive to a newcomer with a desire to thoroughly learn the art and craft of it. This is what I object to. (Well that and your freewheeling definitions of established terminology.)
You have avoided direct answers to questions posed to you, but have still managed to contradict yourself.
If you are wise, this was your last word. You lost the argument, and have IMHO fairly humiliated yourself as any sort of font of knowledge or understanding. Grow up. Calm down and move on.
But your presentation is ridiculous, and potentially counter-productive to a newcomer with a desire to thoroughly learn the art and craft of it. This is what I object to. (Well that and your freewheeling definitions of established terminology.)
You have avoided direct answers to questions posed to you, but have still managed to contradict yourself.
If you are wise, this was your last word. You lost the argument, and have IMHO fairly humiliated yourself as any sort of font of knowledge or understanding. Grow up. Calm down and move on.
Groove Master
Commercial User
- Apr 22, 2011
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- Author of Groove 101, Slap 101 and Technique 101
Dude,
Stop with your 98% because your CT represent 57% of the scale notes. So there is some good chances actually that everything you play is based on actual Scales tones!!
I'm really not impressed by people like you that screws good and valuable informations on sites like this. I mean it!!!
Yes you know what i said Chad, but you did not understand it. So let me show you what you missed and what you are assuming.
You disagree with me because it is common practice.
But you have implied that you have no experience of "common practice" in other parts of the world, yet you have encountered these young musicians that have no idea how chord tones work......how can this be Chad?
How can you have no idea or interest of how music is taught, approached or played in say...the East of England yet you have encountered these all these "young musicians" in Lebanon PA?
You assume it is not common practice for older players ( yourself included) to have noticed that students are running through scales.
This is not a new thing, it has always happened.
I remember it happening in the 60s,..in the 70s...in the 80s...in the 90s...in the 00s and it will continue through the 10s, 20s, 30s, etc.
So from my answer you can assume that I have experienced all these decades in music.
So just in case you miss this point, I learned scales, moved on to Harmony ( the use of arpegiated chord tones in your words), before you were even born.....we all see this and will continue to see this...but why more so?
Simple the access to cheaper, better instruments, dis-jointed teaching ideas, complete lack of teaching or guidance, the erosion of proper and correct music lessons in early life, junior and high school, with well intentioned, but ultimately not qualified teachers or people, teaching what they think is the important parts of music.
Why do I ask you, with respect, to question what it is you are saying?
Well I have over the past five decades experienced many aspects and disciplines of playing music.....in many countries, so I have had to continually open my eyes and ears to what is going on in the world. I have not even come near to visiting every country, near mind every continent, but I have to assume with the vast resources the Internet supplies, as far as music is concerned, seems to have musicians of excellent standard, as well as there fair share of scale runners.
So the final part, why are there so many scale runners?
As I said the vast amount of cheap good quality instruments, with the easy to access ideas of the Internet, fuel a constant stream of players, not musicians, that have ambitions to be musicians. You also have the vast amount of players that do not want to be musicians but just play.
That is the same as the vast amount of people that do DIY, they are not qualified....so if lots of them start getting killed or injured while fitting gas boilers, it is not plumbers numbers that are declining, it is just hobbyists.......these musicians you claim to see that lack chord theory, by definition.....are not musicians.....if they were they would know chord theory, because it is a 1st year subject you learn..it follows basic notation, intervals, scales and keys....all of which are first year subjects that get taught so they can be touch on and expanded over the coming years.
So what you preach is not new, and the problems you encounter in young players are not new, they are growing problem...but they are not a new one. One of the reasons we do not worry about them to much is they like the idea of being a "musician" but do not want take the time and to do the work involved to be one.
We can see that because they are always looking for free lessons or advise, chasing ideas or short cuts to becoming better, actually the spend more time looking for short cuts than it would take to just do the correct work or lessons. Plus..and this is the big one..they always know better. Students telling music educators what they want to learn, rather than them listening to what the educators teach......how can the student be qualified to know what they need to learn without the situation of "the blind leading the blind" becoming a reality?....then we will truly have a problem.
Then there are those that no matter how hard they work will never make the grade for one reason or another, again they have always been there, but there are more of them because they have more access to the tools...but maybe not the skills to really learn.
There are still plenty of qualified musicians filling jobs, working, learning and expanding their craft and experience, especially in the countries I have visited and toured in, and I would suppose there always will be....
Anyway....just saying....or is that, long winded ranting?
Fergie I'm sorry I didn't read your last post because its a long winded rant. I hope u don't feel like u wasted an hour typing this saga and me not reading it. It's too long and to ranty!
Groove Master
Commercial User
- Apr 22, 2011
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At least Fergie's posts are very well detailed and well-written with separate paragraphs that make the content easy to read and focuses on different subjects clearly.
We cannot say the same about your posts that are even longer and not structured at all and then you complain about well-detailed and informative posts.
May be you haven't read any of the useful posts (good posts by the way) that were posted here for you.
How can someone who professes to be a music teacher not even understand the meaning of common musical terms (like "arpeggio"). Those terms are the language by which musicians speak, whether they're in the U.S, Europe, Australia, Asia, or the North Pole.
What you are talking about is harmony, as taught to millions of musicians in hundreds of languages. Call it a "chord tone arpeggio" if you want, but then you're speaking a different language to every other musician. When you're talking about simply playing the notes of a given chord, it's harmony. Over-complicating it with made up expressions won't change that fact.
Answer me this simple question: "What is a non-chord tone arpeggio"?
What you are talking about is harmony, as taught to millions of musicians in hundreds of languages. Call it a "chord tone arpeggio" if you want, but then you're speaking a different language to every other musician. When you're talking about simply playing the notes of a given chord, it's harmony. Over-complicating it with made up expressions won't change that fact.
Answer me this simple question: "What is a non-chord tone arpeggio"?
LOL to long to read??????
The average person should take about 5 minutes to read that post, it took me no more than 10mins to write?
No need to apologise my friend.....I know you read it, you may not understand it, but you will have read it.
Just saying
Rule-based thinking–associated with Kant best known as the “Categorical Imperative” which is “Follow only the principle you want everyone else to follow.” Act in a way that your actions could become a universal standard that others ought to obey.
Ask yourself “If everyone in the world would follow the rule of action I am following would it create the greatest good or „worth of character‟.”
-this thinking directly opposes utilitarianism.
-Is based on duty –on what we ought to do, rather than what we think might work –known by philosophers as deontologicalthinking from the Greek word deonmeaning “obligation” or “duty.”
I will let u boys think about that one and how it applies to playing the Bass!
Ask yourself “If everyone in the world would follow the rule of action I am following would it create the greatest good or „worth of character‟.”
-this thinking directly opposes utilitarianism.
-Is based on duty –on what we ought to do, rather than what we think might work –known by philosophers as deontologicalthinking from the Greek word deonmeaning “obligation” or “duty.”
I will let u boys think about that one and how it applies to playing the Bass!
Your entire last post was copied virtually complete from a book review. A set of strung together sentences copied wholesale from the web (http://www.amazon.com/Good-People-Make-Tough-Choices/dp/B005SNBO3Q) as a post? Taken out of context and without apparent understanding of what they mean...
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hey jostego,
if you want, I can record a video with all the different fingerings of any scales u want to learn. Check out my website for more info: Invalid Link Removed
I also give lessons by skype.
-david
if you want, I can record a video with all the different fingerings of any scales u want to learn. Check out my website for more info: Invalid Link Removed
I also give lessons by skype.
-david
Great stuff Chad, this is why we use the web...to learn new ideas.
Now i want to learn to understand what you wrote so can you go through it bit by bit and explain;
a/The thinking behind it and why it had to become so?
b/ Examples of it used in music, by musicians or in a context that helps me relate to it better?
Great stuff Chad, again, this is what i love about the web, a chance to learn and talk with someone that understands things i do not.
Thanks for taking the time to post and be willing to spend your time on it with me, looking forward to getting into this stuff with you.........just saying
How come you won't answer simple questions, Chad? You're like a one-legged duck: you quack and lot, and swim in circles.
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