Double Bass Learning the bass fingerboard (middle & thumb position and intonation)

[shashank das]

Hey guys, i was wondering if there are any comprehensive studies to really efficiently learn the fingerboard, i have been practicing my scales and arpeggios buti think i need some new ways to look at the fingerboard, i also struggle with intonation in general and the middle and upper register.

 

[garrett2]

Do you have Boardwalkin’? If not that’s your answer. Also the Etudes and studies in the first two volumes of Rabbath.

 

[fu22ba55]

You're gonna get a lot of answers in this thread, but few better than @garrett2 's answer.

Hal Robinson's Boardwalkin' is a bit of a pain to order: you have to order it by phone or snail mail from Robertson Violins, but it's worth it.

While you have them on the phone, you may as well order Robinson's Strokin' as well: his edition of the Sevcik bowing studies, adapted for bass.

Boardwalkin'


Vance Progressive Rep (Rabbath)
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLH9mSrSQydG7FDM5rJ9eXVpCtF2ePvahX

 

[BassFalcon]

Vance’s Progressive Repetoire

 

[damonsmith]

If you don't have a teacher well versed in them, then I would avoid Rabbath/Vance/Boardwalkin'. They are serious methods but do not pan out if you don't the whole thing which includes two hours of scales a day - which will take care of your fingerboard information.
What you are up against is that what is called "L-shaped" playing (the first few positions across the strings and then up the G!) it fractures the fingerboard in your mind.
Very often, it does get the best tone and is often the most musical way to play. So, studying fingerboard geography is sort of a separate activity than practicing how you will actually play, but I think it is worth it.
The best thing to do is to focus on scales across three strings and then doing them an octave up with as close to the same fingerings as possible. This needs to be arco.
Simandl is still by far the most simple and straight-forward method. It is also going to be the most common and most teachers still use it. It is what most of the jazz greats used so it ties in with jazz history well.
Just don't get hung on the fingerings, do what your version says, but try all the other combinations you can think of as well. For thumb position, Petracchi is still the best and especially for jazz, since the two primary hand shapes span a minor third and a Major third. They are nice an solid and keep it easy to pull a big pizz sound.

Another thing that is often not said enough to really spend time on chromatic scales with different fingerings.

 

[mtto]

I recommend Michael Moore’s “Melodic Playing in Thumb Position”

 

[garrett2]

You don’t need to do Boardwalkin’ 2 hours a day! One scale and one arpeggio a day is what I do. It’s important to do the arpeggios after the scales because it gives you the up the fingerboard map for the across the fingerboard work of the scales. And gradually work up to playing the entire scales and arpeggios.

 

[damonsmith]

You don’t need to do Boardwalkin’ 2 hours a day! One scale and one arpeggio a day is what I do. It’s important to do the arpeggios after the scales because it gives you the up the fingerboard map for the across the fingerboard work of the scales. And gradually work up to playing the entire scales and arpeggios.

Yeah, but it is grounded in Rabbath. Also, somebodies grandson needs to figure out a paypal button at this point! The arcane ordering system is not cute anymore.

 

[fu22ba55]

Also, somebodies grandson needs to figure out a paypal button at this point! The arcane ordering system is not cute anymore.

Real talk.

 

[Paps]

I dont think there's any quick fix, intonation and mastery of these positions is all about rigour, repetition and incremental improvement. I am studying Bille and when I eventually get the study under my fingers and it is beginning to sound right, I start using the tuner to check. Then I will go for a lesson and get more critical feedback and focus, then again practice the same study until it gradually improves. Recording yourself playing is also useful. You can then hear what a mess you are making, practice, record again and see that it is getting better. As time goes on, it get easier and you play in tune more naturally...

 

[bherman]

Yeah, but it is grounded in Rabbath. Also, somebodies grandson needs to figure out a paypal button at this point! The arcane ordering system is not cute anymore.

Agree with you on this, I have no Rabbath background and really struggled to figure out how to make sense of and apply Boardwalkin. I gave up and moved onto other things.....

 

[sean_on_bass]

2 octave scales and arpeggios can work wonders. Experiment with different fingerings and movement across strings. Challenge yourself to find every possible way to play them.

 

[fu22ba55]

Agree with you on this, I have no Rabbath background and really struggled to figure out how to make sense of and apply Boardwalkin. I gave up and moved onto other things.....

I did the same at first. When I was starting out, I was ride or die with Simandl. But once I spent some time focusing on the Rabbath shifts, Boardwalkin' made a lot more sense ESPECIALLY the arpeggios.

The major scale stuff is pretty intuitive if you have any electric bass background at all, but trying to think about the Rabbath positions and the PIVOTS during the arpeggio exercises has been helping me get more out of Boardwalkin' and get more confidence navigating in the upper regions of the bass.

 

[Brilee]

Boardwalkin' - Do one key a week, ignore the "position numbers". Sort out for yourself when there is a whole step between fingers whether you need to do a pivot or a shift. Someone on Talkbass coined the term "shivot" which I really like. There are places, especially in low positions, where a true pivot vs. a shift is no real advantage, unless you have huge hands.

Rabbath vol. 3 is another good launching pad for scale fingerings. There is a mystique around Rabbath since he says "two hours a day" of scales, but real human beings can benefit a huge amount from even a half hour a day every day for a couple years. In Art of the Left Hand he has a short segment on how to practice scales. He suggests practicing scales as melodies, with varying rhythms and phrasing, not always up and down in even notes as fast as you can go. Witnessing him turn a scale into a beautiful musical experience is a revelation. I have incorporated that into my scale practice after I have the basic up and down figured out.

 

[Jim Dombrowski]

Practicing against a drone should help with intonation issues. “DroneTool Lite” and s a great app for this. It combines a cello drone with a metronome.

 

[Sean Riddle]

I’ve really enjoyed Petracchi and Michael Moore’s book. Like Damon said, they’re grounded in harmonic movement which is very helpful for us jazz bassists.

 

[damonsmith]

Practicing against a drone should help with intonation issues. “DroneTool Lite” and s a great app for this. It combines a cello drone with a metronome.

This may or may not help depending on when you hand and ear are at. If your left hand technique is ready and you ear is already developed it is great. If not, it will just delay things.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Someone on Talkbass coined the term "shivot" which I really like.

I do endeavor to give satisfaction, sir.

I agree with your post and those of others who advocate for any amount of practice on any concept to be better than not practicing it at all. With respect to everyone, the formula is simple: doing something regularly will get you better at that thing than not doing it at all. The amount of time is just related to how long you want progress to take.

I'll also advocate for an "ear centric" approach to playing any and everything, whether you are reading from a printed score or not. The idea is to create a direct pathway from the ears to the execution of the idea. Whether the idea is written down or not will is completely inconsequential. Hear it, play it. That’s the bottom line, iMO/ IME. As always, EEMMV, and EEMWCB.

 

[Ketbass]

I have read many of these posts over the time I’ve been studying the DB. I like them as they give me different ideas how to get around on the beast. I’ll also add that I have worked with Logic Pro for years, writing and recording on electric bass and other various instruments, and have found, maybe like Chris said, using my ears is my best way to learn and ingrain things. For practice on intonation, I find composing a short piece that requires a DB underneath it using the built in loops, gives me a musical way to enjoy scales, fingering practices and playing with tonal palettes. From time to time, I even get the start of a piece I’ll finish somewhere down the road. The advantage I find is like others, I can record myself into the piece and really hear the mistakes. Drone Apps are cheap but also uninspiring and do only one thing. Even a free copy of Garage Band is a quick down and dirty way to “make and record music”, review, fix and try again. And again. And again….

My goals are different than a lot of others here. I wanted to get up and running with other players as fast as I could, and that has worked well doing this. I still worked with a teacher for awhile to get r.h. and l.h. techniques down. I feel my life on this planet is short with to many things I should’ve done, i.e. study DB, and I don’t have enough time to ever be at the caliber a lot you folks are. I’m almost 60 with the physiology of an octogenarian. Too much time working labor and extreme sports with all the down sides of both. Depends on your goals I guess.

 

[ctrlzjones]

(…) Witnessing him [Rabbath] turn a scale into a beautiful musical experience is a revelation.

That change of perspective for scales/arpeggios practice goes a long way. Making it sound nice (and enjoying yourself while doing so) instead of just sawing through turns a boring routine into a creative challenge.