Lesson learned - poor audition vetting

[Renaissance]

I think video or recordings are very good markers. I'm in the camp that it is almost impossible not to have something digital in your resume.

I fully understand some of the previous examples of why someone didn't have a video/recording. Easy enough to explain when you're talking to the candidate.

Am I going to learn everything about you in your video clip? No.
Does having a video mean you'll automatically fit into every band? No.

To me it does mean that you take your playing, at least, semi-seriously. To me, someone willing to put in the minimal effort required to put together a video/recording is more likely to put the effort into showing up prepared.

I know, I know - extremely broad range and one size doesn't fit all, but still...

 

[Spent]

Had a similar experience. If you’re in the biz long enough you’ll have one too. We went through four very talented guitarist before we found the right one. It can be some work, but worth it if you’re serious. I’m a public school administrator and have been involved in hiring dozens of teachers over the last seven years. Your experience isn’t just limited to music.

 

[LBS-bass]

Had a similar experience. If you’re in the biz long enough you’ll have one too. We went through four very talented guitarist before we found the right one. It can be some work, but worth it if you’re serious. I’m a public school administrator and have been involved in hiring dozens of teachers over the last seven years. Your experience isn’t just limited to music.

My main band is going through something very similar to this right now. We're looking for keys or a multi-instrumentalist who can deftly handle keys. We've had two people come on board that haven't worked out, for various reasons. Mostly it's been a matter of people not wanting to do the work that's needed to come to rehearsal prepared.

At this point, we're rearranging things so that we can do without until the right person comes along. Sometimes it just takes time, or takes what it takes. None of this would have been evident through a video or audio file, though that would have at least provided a basic benchmark of can/cannot play. We knew these people could play, though. Just didn't know they were lazy.

 

[Groove Doctor]

I will take a lesser player with drive than a highly skilled slacker.

Shhh... don't let everyone know my secret!!

These days, there is just simply no reason for anyone to NOT have video or audio of their playing. Even the crudest ipotato recording will allow others to hear how well or how poorly you can play. If someone doesn't have a recording of themselves it sends up a giant red flag for me.

+1.

It goes both ways too. Bands should provide recordings in their ads if they expect others to provide them too.

 

[Panther]

Gets worse with vocalists..

 

[Spectrum]

I was recruited by my band after they had seen me play with my last band and hung out with us a little bit at gigs. I had seen them play as well so I pretty much knew what I was getting into. Had either of us relied on video or recordings I don't think that would've happened. They were pretty rough around the edges back when I joined them.

They've gotten tighter since I joined. Just sayin'...

Anyway, my best experience comes from networking and knowing the local cats over time. Not always an option of course, but at least you have a read for someone beforehand that way.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I made the mistake of judging the book by it's cover. I'm in the process of launching a new band. We just need to find a lead guitarist. I went online and found a candidate. The dude's profile said all the right things in terms of experience, musical interests, gear, etc. After exchanging a few emails with him, he was saying all the right things. I thought for sure we had a solid candidate. Well, the guy showed up for the audition. Nice enough guy, but I think we all could tell before he played a note that this wasn't for him. Despite telling me he knew a bunch of songs on our list, he was only able to stumble through a few songs. I don't expect people to show up knowing a dozen songs, but you think they'd take the time to prepare and nail just a few songs?

Lesson learned. Next time around I will insist on seeing/hearing demo material. Preferably video. So disappointing to waste an afternoon like that.

Just asking, did this guy have have a chance to hear anything you do before he audition? I find that making sure that candidates have a chance to see you play as a unit or at least some recordings that closely resembles what you are like live before auditioning is a huge plus.

When they come in cold, it really puts them behind a eight ball. It doesn’t matter if they are familiar with the song or not, odds are what you are doing is not a perfect cover, and they have no reference to go by to prepare. Just an idea, and hope the next one works out.

 

[SactoBass]

I made the mistake of judging the book by it's cover. I'm in the process of launching a new band. We just need to find a lead guitarist. I went online and found a candidate. The dude's profile said all the right things in terms of experience, musical interests, gear, etc. After exchanging a few emails with him, he was saying all the right things. I thought for sure we had a solid candidate. Well, the guy showed up for the audition. Nice enough guy, but I think we all could tell before he played a note that this wasn't for him. Despite telling me he knew a bunch of songs on our list, he was only able to stumble through a few songs. I don't expect people to show up knowing a dozen songs, but you think they'd take the time to prepare and nail just a few songs?

Lesson learned. Next time around I will insist on seeing/hearing demo material. Preferably video. So disappointing to waste an afternoon like that.

Bullitt: as you can see from the posts in your thread, you are not alone in what you experienced!

I'm 61 and I have been playing bass for the past 45 years. During that time, I have noticed a couple of things:

• There are some people who consider themselves accomplished musicians, but they are most definitely *NOT* accomplished, and they attempt [and fail] to make up for it by "talking the talk" (which is much easier to accomplish than learning to play the music well).

• There are some people who consider themselves accomplished musicians, and they *ARE* accomplished, and they just let their playing do the talking.

There is another thing I have noticed while wandering around on this planet, and that is, there seems to be a lot more people in the former category as compared to the latter.

 

[smogg]

Just asking, did this guy have have a chance to hear anything you do before he audition? I find that making sure that candidates have a chance to see you play as a unit or at least some recordings that closely resembles what you are like live before auditioning is a huge plus.

When they come in cold, it really puts them behind a eight ball. It doesn’t matter if they are familiar with the song or not, odds are what you are doing is not a perfect cover, and they have no reference to go by to prepare. Just an idea, and hope the next one works out.

I agree with your first paragraph. Auditions are a two way street. I disagree with your second paragraph. In a cover band the blueprint already exists. Learn the tune as recorded in the key it's recorded and everybody is one the same page. (unless specifically addressed otherwise in the ad) I'm not talking exact note for note nuance but correct structure committed to memory, nailing the changes, and making sure the signature hooks are correct. It's a cover band, cover the tune.

 

[Kmonk]

I once had the same experience, only in reverse. I showed up to audition for a band only to find out that they couldn't play as well as they led me to believe.

 

[smogg]

I once had the same experience, only in reverse. I showed up to audition for a band only to find out that they couldn't play as well as they led me to believe.

Another reason to request a somewhat current piece of video in advance.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I agree with your first paragraph. Auditions are a two way street. I disagree with your second paragraph. In a cover band the blueprint already exists. Learn the tune as recorded in the key it's recorded and everybody is one the same page. (unless specifically addressed otherwise in the ad) I'm not talking exact note for note nuance but correct structure committed to memory, nailing the changes, and making sure the signature hooks are correct. It's a cover band, cover the tune.

I got ya. Apparently, your candidate didn’t. I had a couple of singers show up about as prepared as your guy late last year, so I understand you frustration. What I’ve found after that, was by providing candidates a clear picture of us, who we are what we sound like, what we look like, the caliber of musicianship, it eliminates a lot of the surface noise you are experiencing.

Anyway, best wishes going forward.

 

[smogg]

I got ya. Apparently, your candidate didn’t. I had a couple of singers show up about as prepared as your guy late last year, so I understand you frustration. What I’ve found after that, was by providing candidates a clear picture of us, who we are what we sound like, what we look like, the caliber of musicianship, it eliminates a lot of the surface noise you are experiencing.

Anyway, best wishes going forward.

I am not the OP but your recommendations are sound.

 

[Bullitt5135]

OP follow-up...I understand that video/audio isn't the be-all/end-all of judging somebody's abilities. It's just a few more pieces in the puzzle to hopefully make a good choice for the band. I gave the guy a list of 30 songs a week in advance. He indicated that he knew enough of our songs to make an initial jam session worth our time. He had video and audio of the previous incarnation of our band to know what we are about. Everything he said in our communications indicated this guy was a good fit for us. Unfortunately, he didn't come prepared and the day was a bust. Maybe he's a better player than I give him credit for? We'll never know, because he won't get a second chance. Preparation trumps all.

The drummer we're working with brought up a guitar player he knows and sent us a few video links. In 20 seconds, I could tell this guy had serious chops and good stage presence. After 1 minute of video, I had the sense that this guy was a strong type-A personality. I asked the drummer a few more questions. Turns out the the guitar player indeed tends to take control of bands he's in, calls all the shots, doesn't particularly like to rehearse, and is OK with going onstage cold and winging it. I have no problem with any of those things. In fact, sounds like a fun band to be in. It's just not the kind of guy I think will work in the context of this project and the other personalities involved. Drummer agrees, and we're going to pass on this guy at this time. Had I not seen the video, I may have learned this the hard way.

As for myself, there's video and audio clips of me floating around (check my screen name on Bandmix). It would probably show that while I'm not Geddy Lee, I can hold my own in a respectable bar band, shows the types of placed I've played, that I have acceptable personal hygiene, and that I could stand to improve my stage presence. I can also point out to prospective band mates that I produced all of the audio demos and video myself -- which shows that I bring other talents and a certain level of commitment to bands I'm in. Again, just pieces of the puzzle for making a decision.

 

[AztecViking]

He could talk the the talk but couldn't walk the walk.

It's also quite hilarious/disappointing when someone with great gear expects that to get them the gig.

 

[Frampton]

A recording would have been ideal. But, if he otherwise seemed like a good candidate, its hard to pass up an audition. Sometimes the audition process is just tedious.

 

[pcake]

I made the mistake of judging the book by it's cover. I'm in the process of launching a new band. We just need to find a lead guitarist. I went online and found a candidate. The dude's profile said all the right things in terms of experience, musical interests, gear, etc. After exchanging a few emails with him, he was saying all the right things. I thought for sure we had a solid candidate. Well, the guy showed up for the audition. Nice enough guy, but I think we all could tell before he played a note that this wasn't for him. Despite telling me he knew a bunch of songs on our list, he was only able to stumble through a few songs. I don't expect people to show up knowing a dozen songs, but you think they'd take the time to prepare and nail just a few songs?

Lesson learned. Next time around I will insist on seeing/hearing demo material. Preferably video. So disappointing to waste an afternoon like that.

imo the point of an audition is to find stuff like this out. even the worst player could spend enough time and money to have a great demo, or they could download someone else's performance and say it was them. honestly you can't beat an in-person audition to weed out people with issues or who can't deliver what they promise.

 

[pudgychef]

I made the mistake of judging the book by it's cover. I'm in the process of launching a new band. We just need to find a lead guitarist. I went online and found a candidate. The dude's profile said all the right things in terms of experience, musical interests, gear, etc. After exchanging a few emails with him, he was saying all the right things. I thought for sure we had a solid candidate. Well, the guy showed up for the audition. Nice enough guy, but I think we all could tell before he played a note that this wasn't for him. Despite telling me he knew a bunch of songs on our list, he was only able to stumble through a few songs. I don't expect people to show up knowing a dozen songs, but you think they'd take the time to prepare and nail just a few songs?

Lesson learned. Next time around I will insist on seeing/hearing demo material. Preferably video. So disappointing to waste an afternoon like that.

or agree on 3 songs for the audition prior - then everyone is on the same page and can show up prepared.

 

[IamGroot]

I once had the same experience, only in reverse. I showed up to audition for a band only to find out that they couldn't play as well as they led me to believe.

Always vet the band before investing time and driving across town with your gear. Ask to see their videos.

Btw, back in the 90s, I was part of a team that made bogus band demos for bands that couldnt play.

 

[RichardT2112]

Look, if you have dozens or even hundreds of applicants to sift through then sure, ask for a recent demo, photos and gear list but the unfortunate fact is in person auditions are the only real way to get a feel for how well someone may or may not fit in. It's a compromise because, lets face it. You more likely won't find that perfect musician who has killer chops, great gear, is prepared in advance and has a winning personality. You have to decide which of those traits are more important. Committing the time to carry these out, no matter how valuable you consider your time to be will be needed.

One other point to consider is they're auditioning you as much as you're auditioning them. (keep in mind all those posts about member X auditioning to play with Band Y and finding out they're nothing like what they portrayed themselves to be)