Lesson learned - poor audition vetting

[devnulljp]

I had a similar story recently. The guy said all the right things, was well spoken, and just needed a bassist who would come in knowing their parts. "Great," I thought. The only issue is when we finally got together they didn't know any of their parts. Biggest waste of time on my part since I spent a couple hours learning songs and then another hour auditioning with them.

Oh yeah, I've done that. Nightmare. At least it imploded after one awful gig. Lesson learned. Just say 'No'
(Although to be fair, it was really the band leader that was the problem, and I made a good contact in the drummer. Looks like we might be working together again in a decent project away from the substance issues associated with the other guy).

 

[interp]

You never know how people are going to turn out, even if they’re well vetted in advance. Many years ago a band I was in hired a new drummer who had just destroyed the audition. Incredible drummer and seemed to be a nice guy.

Our first gig with him (in front of 2,000 people) he shows up tripping on acid so bad he could not function. That was not fun.

 

[Crazy_Jake]

The more you have to audition people you will find that your BS detector will improve and you will be able to spot a fraud from a long way off .

 

[Bunk McNulty]

Not entirely true. I came back into this after quite a few years' absence. When I decided to pick up my bass again, there were many pro level recordings of me singing, but none of me playing. Fortunately I was able to land a gig with a band by actually learning the songs and nailing the parts during the audition. That's the old-fashioned way. Nowadays I have audio and video because I've played quite a few gigs since then, but there was no hidden, terrible reason I didn't have it before

The cover band I play with most found me through Bandmix. They asked me to learn five songs. I learned them, played them, and they offered me the gig on the spot. It wasn't until a few months later that I learned that they'd auditioned twenty-six bass players before me. I was the only one who had bothered to learn the material. As I've posted in various places before: I ain't no virtuoso. But I've always gotten work. It's real simple: Learn the material, show up on time (clean and sober), and do your best to be pleasant with everyone.

 

[StraffordMike]

SInce the early 2000's and the appearence of relatively small recorders (back than it was minidiscs) I've always made a point of asking people for recordings before they even come out to play. My free time is just too precious to waste on an unknown entity.

These days, there is just simply no reason for anyone to NOT have video or audio of their playing. Even the crudest ipotato recording will allow others to hear how well or how poorly you can play. If someone doesn't have a recording of themselves it sends up a giant red flag for me.

I don't and I'm considered quite good in my area. I know, big fish little pond but to me recordings are useless. Most are done on phones or other handheld devices and once the microphone compresses the sound coming in you usually can't hear much of the bass anyways. What's the sense. If someone is going to discount me over lack of recording instead of meeting me face to face I'm not interested either.
How do you measure commitment, desire, ability to learn and personality by video. I'll bet you date Russian girls on online.

 

[fhm555]

Here’s another way to look at it.
You didn’t waste an afternoon, you moved one step closer to finding a viable candidate.
Yes people these days tend to over state their skills, but to some degree that has always been true. It comes from our desire to be admired and as long as an ego exists so will people willing to fudge the truth while attempting to feed their ego. Roll with it man, embrace the horror of kissing frogs, or find something that does not stress you out as much as auditioning musicians for a band.

 

[3Liter]

I have had a few recent experiences:
- I went to audition for a band (guitar). I never sent a video, but I looked at their website and song list. LONG chat with the BL (should have been a tip off, LOL). She seemed cool, just come out, but learn this one specific song. OK, so I worked on that A LOT and a few others that I liked from their list. In fact, I learned a bit of how to play that one song off their prior videos. They could play. When I showed, the bassist was filling in on guitar and competently so (but no bass), they had a different keyboardist that I could barely hear in the mix and no mic or drums. Hmmm, OK. So we attempted to do a few songs and with no drummer it was tough going. I arrived at the tail end of their rehearsal for a small gig and I could see how disorganized things were. Then when playing one of the songs, there was a fill and the BL/singer sort of snapped at me and said I was "late" on that part. I determined probably before I "auditioned" while they were rehearsing that this wasn't going to be a fit. Maybe if the drummer was there, and the bassist had a bass with him, it would have been a different thought....plus it was 40 min from my house.
- I have been in this garage jam thing that was supposed to be more than that. I was excited. There was another guitar player (I was #2) and everyone sort of knew each other. I'd played with the bassist and drummer before. They'd played with the guitar player. And I knew people who'd played with the guitar player. I had heard he was really good. The people that told me that are less discerning than I am I guess. He can play, good timing, competent. Cannot play with others. He played every note and then some, along with a tone that took up a lot of space (lots of chorus sound). He play in other bands, but this would have let him have more leadership. I almost couldn't cram a note in edgewise. One of those guitar players that's both rhythm and lead. So while he has videos out there, he'd be a terrible guy in a two guitar band. (This same project had a cat show up that was calling out to the drummer (his house) to change the drum beat before we'd finished the first song...wow).
- I have an audition next weekend. I saw the band live and they are pretty good. Really defined roles. I will be the rhythm guitar player, so I have worked a bunch on that. I never traded videos with them. But I did refer one guy to my old band's FB page. Maybe there's videos there that he watched. I don't expect much, but I know the material and had a good conversation with the BL about what they want and I'm down with their business model.
- I have an ad on CL. Someone asked for a recording. I refered him/her to my bandmix page where I have a few and never heard boo after that. Who knows. Maybe I'm saving myself a lot of time, there.

 

[jshinal]

Videos can be useful, but would not have shown me a drummer's anger management problems, nor warned me the singer auditioning would show up halfway through a bottle of vodka.

 

[micguy]

Gets worse with vocalists..

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this statement. It doesn't get worse with vocalists. It gets FAR WORSE with vocalists.

Almost everyone thinks they can sing. Most of them are wrong. Sometimes, though, it can be entertaining to watch them try.

 

[Panther]

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with this statement. It doesn't get worse with vocalists. It gets FAR WORSE with vocalists.

Almost everyone thinks they can sing. Most of them are wrong. Sometimes, though, it can be entertaining to watch them try.

Totally true. I've yet to be in a band where the vocalist had ONE lesson. ONE. Ever.

 

[pigpen1]

I made the mistake of judging the book by it's cover. I'm in the process of launching a new band. We just need to find a lead guitarist. I went online and found a candidate. The dude's profile said all the right things in terms of experience, musical interests, gear, etc. After exchanging a few emails with him, he was saying all the right things. I thought for sure we had a solid candidate. Well, the guy showed up for the audition. Nice enough guy, but I think we all could tell before he played a note that this wasn't for him. Despite telling me he knew a bunch of songs on our list, he was only able to stumble through a few songs. I don't expect people to show up knowing a dozen songs, but you think they'd take the time to prepare and nail just a few songs?

Lesson learned. Next time around I will insist on seeing/hearing demo material. Preferably video. So disappointing to waste an afternoon like that.

Was it that he couldn't play, or just didn't take time to learn the songs? How did you know it wasn't for him before he played a note?

 

[RiffwRiter]

Happens in day-job land too. Some people interview well and have a nice resume, but once they are on the job you find out they can't do the job. It can be really painful because some bosses are too slow to get rid of a bad new hire and the hiring process takes so long . We had a person join our group that came from solid training and experience and delivered a convincing presentation as part of the interview process, but only after coming on board did we discover that she actually was incompetent and had a lot of help getting to the point where we hired her. Eventually she was unhappy enough that she did us the favor our boss wouldn't do and found another job.

In my bands (almost always originals rock bands) I have found that goals and even the idea of having goals has been often mismatched. For some of these naive people playing live shows turns out to be too much trouble when the whole world doesn't show up cheering us on, and ... I'm going to stop before I go on a rant.

 

[Runlikegregg]

I think a better idea will be to request that they gt a few specific songs down that he/she can audition.

 

[Bullitt5135]

Was it that he couldn't play, or just didn't take time to learn the songs? How did you know it wasn't for him before he played a note?

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and speculate that he was an OK player, given the right setting. Even the songs he claimed to know, he played meekly and dropped out a lot. As he set up his gear and tuned up, he didn't exude any confidence. Maybe it was just nerves, but he seemed a little overwhelmed by the situation -- and we're about as laid-back and patient as you get.

 

[InhumanResource]

I made the mistake of judging the book by it's cover. I'm in the process of launching a new band. We just need to find a lead guitarist. I went online and found a candidate. The dude's profile said all the right things in terms of experience, musical interests, gear, etc. After exchanging a few emails with him, he was saying all the right things. I thought for sure we had a solid candidate. Well, the guy showed up for the audition. Nice enough guy, but I think we all could tell before he played a note that this wasn't for him. Despite telling me he knew a bunch of songs on our list, he was only able to stumble through a few songs. I don't expect people to show up knowing a dozen songs, but you think they'd take the time to prepare and nail just a few songs?

Lesson learned. Next time around I will insist on seeing/hearing demo material. Preferably video. So disappointing to waste an afternoon like that.

As a person who does recruiting, these types of candidates exist in all fields. A lot of times (in technology anyway) you find them coming from a sales/client facing background but talk the talk enough to convince some people to get in the door... Then you find out that they just know the language but don't actually have enough technical depth to do the job they are interviewing for (or worst case, got hired for).

Your case is an example of the vetting process going RIGHT. Candidate passed the initial sniff test but failed the technical screening. Sometimes you just have to put the time in.

 

[baileyboy]

...Despite telling me he knew a bunch of songs on our list, he was only able to stumble through a few songs. I don't expect people to show up knowing a dozen songs, but you think they'd take the time to prepare and nail just a few songs? ...Lesson learned.

When we had to audition for a guitarist, we emailed our set list/song keys and insisted that each candidate needed to come ready to play any 10 songs of their choosing from the set list. We suggested each give a listen to the studio version of each song, as we try to stay as close to that as we can. We auditioned at least 8 or 9 candidates before we found our current guitarist, who has been with us for close to two years now. It was amazing to me how many showed up knowing none of the tunes, thinking they could just wing it, or only knowing a handful and wanting to play other tunes we don't play.

 

[Bullitt5135]

I've always been in the "under-promise, over-deliver" camp. I've only been playing in bands for the past 7 or 8 years, having taken up bass again in my early-40's. After dinking around with a couple dead-end startups, I started looking for a more established outfit. I told the guys upfront that I basically had ZERO experience, but I was confident that I could play what was on their set list. I also made it clear I would always come prepared, and I would never never waste their time. I went to the audition prepared to pay a dozen songs off their list. I busted my butt for hours a day over several weeks & months to get up to speed and stay on top of the material. I played in that band for 5 years, and I never gave them a reason to say I wasn't pulling my weight.

 

[3Liter]

I've always been in the "under-promise, over-deliver" camp. I've only been playing in bands for the past 7 or 8 years, having taken up bass again in my early-40's. After dinking around with a couple dead-end startups, I started looking for a more established outfit. I told the guys upfront that I basically had ZERO experience, but I was confident that I could play what was on their set list. I also made it clear I would always come prepared, and I would never never waste their time. I went to the audition prepared to pay a dozen songs off their list. I busted my butt for hours a day over several weeks & months to get up to speed and stay on top of the material. I played in that band for 5 years, and I never gave them a reason to say I wasn't pulling my weight.

Thats' a good approach. What I have seen a lot of on this forum or in general is folks not willing to "take a risk" on a guy like you. They get dazzled with the guy that comes in and nails a song that he's played before in the style or his other chops and misses out on someone that will actually "prepare" for the work. I play blues with a guy that, while good, and a super person, DOES NOT LISTEN to the material outside our jam sessions. As such, this will never progress past a basement jam for that reason.

 

[Bullitt5135]

It must be my innate fear of being exposed as a complete poseur that causes me to put in the serious prep time.

 

[ZAR14]

Similar situation but from the other side. I contacted these guys to Audition for their Bass player vacancy. They gave me about 5-6 songs to learn, (all rather easy).
I showed up the day of audition and they decided to noodle around on random songs, never once playing any of the material they asked me to work on.
I was initially nervous for the audition, (I havent auditioned for several yrs) and as it turned out, I was the most talented one. They started talking about booking gigs and getting a band name, adding more songs. Needless to say, I didn't feel any sort of connection and contacted them the next day thanking them for the opportunity and told them I was going in a different direction...