I had a drummer that was leaving the band voluntarily and showed up at the last gig so stoned he could hardly play. I can understand being a d'bag on your way out (not that being unprofessional is ever acceptable), but on your way in???
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Lesson learned - poor audition vetting
- Thread starter Bullitt5135
- Start date
But in my case, I have no videos of myself playing, and I will tell you that I would have nailed the audition, so if he precludes me because of my lack of bits, he would be missing out on a guy who would come in prepared and ready. Quite frankly, when I come into an audition, the audition is going both ways, I'm looking to see if the guitarist is playing it right, whether the singer hits the note, or is sharp or flat...I'm usually wanted by the band, but I have turned down bands because of the audition.
Before cheap recording how many times did you show up for audition, jam whatever and after the first note counting the hour until you get bail?
Had one guy on phone swear he played just like Page and Hendrix and after one note in his bedroom in Mommy's house (have a home reording studio he says) not knowing what a key was (let's just play) counted the seconds until I could run away
But his Mom did make damn good Enchilida's which she insisted I take w me....not total loss
never again, no proof of ability no car-ride
Had one guy on phone swear he played just like Page and Hendrix and after one note in his bedroom in Mommy's house (have a home reording studio he says) not knowing what a key was (let's just play) counted the seconds until I could run away
But his Mom did make damn good Enchilida's which she insisted I take w me....not total loss
never again, no proof of ability no car-ride
I completely agree @Lbsterner. @saabfender, I to had about a 15 year gap of me playing with any other bands. I jammed with friends, practiced somewhat regularly but when I started looking for a band I didn't have anything of me playing. Personally I felt it would be silly and unprofessional for me to record myself with my Zoom handheld recorder since I don't have the ability to record myself any other way. When bands reached out to me I asked for the music to learn and did my best to learn it prior to an audition. If they were unable to provide me music to learn I declined to audition. FWIW I had 2 auditions and now I'm in both bands.Not entirely true. I came back into this after quite a few years' absence. When I decided to pick up my bass again, there were many pro level recordings of me singing, but none of me playing. Fortunately I was able to land a gig with a band by actually learning the songs and nailing the parts during the audition. That's the old-fashioned way. Nowadays I have audio and video because I've played quite a few gigs since then, but there was no hidden, terrible reason I didn't have it before
Without a doubt, hearing a recording or seeing a video helps establish the low bar of whether someone can actually play. It's a useful tool and I'm asking for recordings myself as I recruit a keys player. But if someone contacts me with a stellar resume and explains they've been out of the spotlight for a while but wants to prep for an audition, I'd give them a chance. We have a Soundcloud account with a bunch of originals, pick three and show me what you've got. Giving someone the time to do three songs at the beginning of an already-scheduled rehearsal isn't going to be a huge burden.
The guy who lost me was the guy who wanted a temp/sub bassist for booked gigs but couldn't or wouldn't give me a list of dates so I could check for conflicts. He was more than happy to give me a canned response with a list of songs to learn but when I asked him why I should waste my time learning songs for gigs I might not be able to do, we parted ways . Dude is still advertising for players, and I don't wonder why.
. Dude is still advertising for players, and I don't wonder why.
I think the 2 sides of the debate are closer than they seem.
Meeting in person and playing an audition is inevitable, in this context.
But, audio/video might save you that step. I don't know that it would be a deal breaker of a player didn't have something to send, but most do, and it certainly doesn't hurt. What's there to lose by watching or listening?
Just seems logical to have more ways to consider a person or project.
I'm biased though, because I hate the whole "let's meet for coffee before we decide to jam" thing. If we are taking the time to meet, why would we not have instruments in our hands?! I just walk in, say my name and thanks for letting me jam, and plug in expecting to play.
For me, I think folks invest too much in the band of Brothers stuff. Just play already. We can figure out within 5 minutes everything we need to know about each other. We can go have coffee afterwards.
Meeting in person and playing an audition is inevitable, in this context.
But, audio/video might save you that step. I don't know that it would be a deal breaker of a player didn't have something to send, but most do, and it certainly doesn't hurt. What's there to lose by watching or listening?
Just seems logical to have more ways to consider a person or project.
I'm biased though, because I hate the whole "let's meet for coffee before we decide to jam" thing. If we are taking the time to meet, why would we not have instruments in our hands?! I just walk in, say my name and thanks for letting me jam, and plug in expecting to play.
For me, I think folks invest too much in the band of Brothers stuff. Just play already. We can figure out within 5 minutes everything we need to know about each other. We can go have coffee afterwards.
The "over coffee" stuff I've just been doing in a series of emails which help me and the prospect discover if this even has the potential to be a good fit. Some players are traveling a fair distance and I don't want anyone to waste their time if, say, the fact that we are not completely abstinent from alcohol is going to be a deal breaker. There's been a certain level of hand-holding that I woudn't want to do again with certain people who came in, seemed like they might work out, but didn't. That level of hand-holding is now a red-flag with me; if I have to bend over backwards to convince your highness to come out, it's not going to work. At minimum, you have to have a desire to be doing this that will override your desire to sit at home for the one night a week we rehearse.
Most of the usual questions about our expectations, skill level, etc., are spelled out in our ad. But there are lots of other legitimate questions that might be good to ask and answer before expecting someone to spend time learning new material.
Most of the usual questions about our expectations, skill level, etc., are spelled out in our ad. But there are lots of other legitimate questions that might be good to ask and answer before expecting someone to spend time learning new material.
What's always made me shake my head is the mindset that people have had for yrs. That they are so tight on time, when in reality, probably less than 1% of the people that claim that they are So busy, are actually that busy
If you broke down someones day, they have the time. How they choose to spend it is the reality of it. How they prioritize
If you broke down someones day, they have the time. How they choose to spend it is the reality of it. How they prioritize
Putting a band together is no different than hiring for any other job.
You put out your ad. Get a couple dozen applications. Narrow that down to 5-6 interviews (auditions). Pick your best choice. Then about 30 days (probationary period) later you know if it is going to work out. If it doesn't you start over.
You really can't expect magic.
You put out your ad. Get a couple dozen applications. Narrow that down to 5-6 interviews (auditions). Pick your best choice. Then about 30 days (probationary period) later you know if it is going to work out. If it doesn't you start over.
You really can't expect magic.
I was a member of a very popular band who's heyday was in the 80's/early 90's.
We had to have auditions to replace keyboard players twice & guitar players once. We were offering good weekly pay with health insurance. We were working a lot & doing radio & T.V. houseband work a lot. Needless to say,we got a lot of players who wanted to audition. The bad part was we had to audition friends & relatives of DJ's,TV hosts,media execs(they were pretty important to us & gave us big breaks) who called in a favor. Most of them were awful.Many of them expected to join because of their "connection". Some got pissed at us when they didn't get the gig. Just as bad were the local pro's who expected to get hired because of their credentials & chops. Those guys(& women) for the most part were great players but not quite a good fit. Our schtick was mainly 60's oldies(we sounded like a real 60's band) so a lot of local virtuoso's would just overplay & ignore feel. We didn't need Wakeman/Emerson/Corea (nor could we play it). 90% of those people were VERY pissed that they didn't get the gig. The guy who played with Joe Cocker was the worst(I don't remember his name). I bumped into him playing in another band in a club & he got into my face about how he could play rings around anybody in my band,etc. When we had to replace the guitarist two years earlier we already had somebody picked but because of pressure from management/agents/media types,etc.we had to audition every guitarist on the east coast. Same results. We didn't get too much time off especially in the summer and I would have to spend my few days off & early afternoons before a gig in a rehearsal studio for 6 to 7 hours auditioning people who we really shouldn't of had to audition. Even when we found somebody we had to audition every body who had a connection.
We had to have auditions to replace keyboard players twice & guitar players once. We were offering good weekly pay with health insurance. We were working a lot & doing radio & T.V. houseband work a lot. Needless to say,we got a lot of players who wanted to audition. The bad part was we had to audition friends & relatives of DJ's,TV hosts,media execs(they were pretty important to us & gave us big breaks) who called in a favor. Most of them were awful.Many of them expected to join because of their "connection". Some got pissed at us when they didn't get the gig. Just as bad were the local pro's who expected to get hired because of their credentials & chops. Those guys(& women) for the most part were great players but not quite a good fit. Our schtick was mainly 60's oldies(we sounded like a real 60's band) so a lot of local virtuoso's would just overplay & ignore feel. We didn't need Wakeman/Emerson/Corea (nor could we play it). 90% of those people were VERY pissed that they didn't get the gig. The guy who played with Joe Cocker was the worst(I don't remember his name). I bumped into him playing in another band in a club & he got into my face about how he could play rings around anybody in my band,etc. When we had to replace the guitarist two years earlier we already had somebody picked but because of pressure from management/agents/media types,etc.we had to audition every guitarist on the east coast. Same results. We didn't get too much time off especially in the summer and I would have to spend my few days off & early afternoons before a gig in a rehearsal studio for 6 to 7 hours auditioning people who we really shouldn't of had to audition. Even when we found somebody we had to audition every body who had a connection.
If the player in question can't be bothered to sit down in front of a computer and record something that is relevant to the genre at hand, it tells me they likely aren't going to put forth the effort in other areas as well.
I played in a band where both singers were vocal teachers. Now THAT was an awesome band!!
I'll ask them to pick 4 songs from a list of 10. Then throw a 5th song in to see if they can wing it.
+1.
Spot on.
IMO it's easy to forget that we here on TB may not have the same mindset as the average garage bander out there. I have no doubt that everyone who has responded to this thread knows what it takes to put their best foot forward for an audition. Unfortunately many of the "musicians" I meet out here in the trenches don't have the same mindset as we do.
Most of my experiences are rock (ie: classic, modern, old school metal) and hard country type cover bands. Many (as in a lot) of the "players" I've met claim they are awesome but they usually are not. Many of the bands I have auditioned for claim to be "professional" but they are not. Because of that I prefer to see video up front and can provide it in my own profile. I'm OK with using the options currently available to try to screen out the posers, the drunks, the addicts and what not. There is no perfect vetting process but I do prefer to try to minimize my interaction with the type of people I don't want to be around.
Most of my experiences are rock (ie: classic, modern, old school metal) and hard country type cover bands. Many (as in a lot) of the "players" I've met claim they are awesome but they usually are not. Many of the bands I have auditioned for claim to be "professional" but they are not. Because of that I prefer to see video up front and can provide it in my own profile. I'm OK with using the options currently available to try to screen out the posers, the drunks, the addicts and what not. There is no perfect vetting process but I do prefer to try to minimize my interaction with the type of people I don't want to be around.
You don't. But then, those are pretty much meaningless if the person can't play to begin with. No one is saying you make a decision based solely on the video - just that you can weed some people out that way.
I auditioned for a metal band. It went well according to me. 2 weeks later I got a message saying that the band splitted up after my audition.
Maybe, but it's a two-way street. If you haven't demonstrated to me that it's going to possibly be worth my while to make that effort, why should I bother? Bands are a dime a dozen. Bands that are worth the effort I'll put into them? Not so much.
This is exactly what makes it a good screening question. You talk about the effort you would put in, but your (in)actions show a different story.
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Asking for samples is definitely a good idea. Specifying video is kind of silly. By all means state "video samples preferred", but a lot of bands/musicians simply don't have good quality video because it usually has to be outsourced and costs a lot of money to get something worth showing.
And I kind of agree on the somewhat pointless nature of "meeting for coffee". Basics can be ferreted out over email or phone. In person should be to play. THEN if the person "makes the next round", that might be a time to get everyone together over coffee or beers to get to know each other. But that's a waste of time if the playing isn't in the ballpark. Not everybody is the social type anyway and not every band needs that either. So get the playing determination out of the way first.
Also, 30 songs is about 5 times too many for an audition. The poor guy was probably completely overwhelmed and diluted his efforts too much, instead of focusing on a few songs and really nailing them. 5 or 6 is probably a good place to start, assuming about a week or 2 to prep. By all means give them a full list of covers you do, or links to originals, but don't expect them to know more than that half dozen the first time out. Personally, I like to pick out songs that cover the range and difficulty of the band. Like, what's the hardest song we have on that instrument? And if your background is X, can you play Y? The idea is to get answers to these kinds of questions in as little material as possible, but I like to have at least about 4 songs, because some things are more prep/time based, and some things are just easier if it's in the style that you're used to, but it doesn't mean you can't stretch and learn something else, given the time. Everything is basically conditional, and the idea is to make the audition as useful and unburdensome as possible.
And I kind of agree on the somewhat pointless nature of "meeting for coffee". Basics can be ferreted out over email or phone. In person should be to play. THEN if the person "makes the next round", that might be a time to get everyone together over coffee or beers to get to know each other. But that's a waste of time if the playing isn't in the ballpark. Not everybody is the social type anyway and not every band needs that either. So get the playing determination out of the way first.
Also, 30 songs is about 5 times too many for an audition. The poor guy was probably completely overwhelmed and diluted his efforts too much, instead of focusing on a few songs and really nailing them. 5 or 6 is probably a good place to start, assuming about a week or 2 to prep. By all means give them a full list of covers you do, or links to originals, but don't expect them to know more than that half dozen the first time out. Personally, I like to pick out songs that cover the range and difficulty of the band. Like, what's the hardest song we have on that instrument? And if your background is X, can you play Y? The idea is to get answers to these kinds of questions in as little material as possible, but I like to have at least about 4 songs, because some things are more prep/time based, and some things are just easier if it's in the style that you're used to, but it doesn't mean you can't stretch and learn something else, given the time. Everything is basically conditional, and the idea is to make the audition as useful and unburdensome as possible.
