Light touch vs. Compression

[Wasnex]

The camp that thinks you can use technique to emulate compression don’t understand what compression actually is.

Every single recorded electric bass part that you’ve heard in the last 50 years has had compression on it, likely in multiple stages.

I am not saying technique can be used to emulate compression, but good technique can mitigate the need for compression. Course there are many reasons to use compression and technique does not address all of them.

I don't use compression live as a bass player because I want my stage sound to jump out of the mix so I can hear every little nuance of my playing. But I also have the goal of monitoring at the absolute lowest possible level.

However when I work as an audio tech, I generally do use compression on bass because my goal is to get it to lay well in the mix. This is not a non-sequitar, as I think the bass signal should be optimized for its intended purpose. Some people like using compression on stage, and some don't.

 

[And I]

My M87 is always on. I use a light to medium touch. I have it set ar 4:1 and with the input low enough so it does almost nothing until I start to play too hard. When I see the gain reduction going crazy, that's my reminder to ease up.

 

[markjazzbassist]

Every single recorded electric bass part that you’ve heard in the last 50 years has had compression on it, likely in multiple stages

Not true. Bob olhsson has said before that bob babbitt never had compression. Bruce Swedian is on record many times stating how he hates compression and never uses it. He states in many interviews a proper musician doesn’t need it. Plenty more of the biggest and most revered in the industry have stated similar.

Learning to setup your instrument correctly so each string outputs the same is a must. Equally learning to pluck at even and Consistent levels is also a must.

 

[jdh3000]

So are you having a problem with a specific bass or bass in general?

Just bass in general... Every bass I've ever played I run into this.
I use every tool I can find to deal with it and even though the parametric eq comes close to solving it, there are still the problems I mentioned.

I've boosted mids, cut mids, swept and scooped frequencies, yet wind up with something lacking.

 

[Rib 13]

I use a compressor as a limiter primarily for slap bass as I find it reigns in pops a little tighter. Do I need it? No, but the technology is there to use so why not use it (I dont need to wax my car either but it does pretty it up more than just a basic car wash).....I leave it on 100% of the time as it doesnt affect my finger playing......It should be noted that I go back and forth between techniques live which warrants its use....

Theres been some posts in this thread regarding studio work.....most studios Ive been in that require both fingers (or pick) and slap on a single song: although songs requiring multiple techniques are usually few and far between, each technique goes on a separate track so, if a player delivers consistently enough, compressor may not be needed....but comparing what works in a studio setting and what works live are apples and oranges

 

[project_c]

I play very light and sometimes dig in hard, I use a Seymour Duncan studio bass compressor when I feel like the difference in dynamics might cause issues and it works great. It can even out the dynamic range without squashing your tone, works really well for me. I don’t always have it on but it’s helped me out a few times.

 

[Wasnex]

Just bass in general... Every bass I've ever played I run into this.
I use every tool I can find to deal with it and even though the parametric eq comes close to solving it, there are still the problems I mentioned.

I've boosted mids, cut mids, swept and scooped frequencies, yet wind up with something lacking.

If it's every bass, I suspect the problem may be related to technique. Do you record yourself? Is the problem apparent in the recordings or just when you play. We perceive sound different when we are playing versus when we are just listening.

Something that may be useful is a looper. I have Boss DD7 digital delay that can be configured as a looper. If you have something similar, you can lay down a short loop and then feed the loop through your compressor, so you are free to adjust it without being encumbered by playing the bass.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I work on my technique all the time. The better it gets, the more the volume knob can go up, the less I need compression. Now I find I am hitting that bypass button all the time. Look out on e**y, one MXR M87 and one DBX160 coming up any day now!

This.

There can be a place for compression but learning to manually control your attack is doable too.

 

[eddododo]

Compressor with clean blend is always a bigggggg help if you want a natural sounding tone coupled with the fatness and smoothed dynamics of a compressor

I found I had better tone with a lighter touch, but I’m also someone who digs in at times for that characteristic sound... a moderately heavy ratio with a high threshold allows me to play lighter for work but dig in when I want without it needing to be 10x louder than my regular stroke.

A million ways to use compression, but here’s the real secret:
You can’t approach compression seeking a specific end result. The best way to use compression well is to try out a few different types and get to know those sounds and feels. When you KNOW a sound, then you can decide to use it. But hoping a conpressor may solve something specific always led me to not really like the compressor I was trying.

 

[jdh3000]

If it's every bass, I suspect the problem may be related to technique. Do you record yourself? Is the problem apparent in the recordings or just when you play. We perceive sound different when we are playing versus when we are just listening.

Something that may be useful is a looper. I have Boss DD7 digital delay that can be configured as a looper. If you have something similar, you can lay down a short loop and then feed the loop through your compressor, so you are free to adjust it without being encumbered by playing the bass.

It's interesting that you said that. I do record the band playing so I can go back and try to see how it sounded and what I thought didn't sound too good sounded good.
Even my playing sounds better than I thought I was playing.

I'll keep what you're saying in mind. Maybe my mind is just locking onto something that works itself out in the mix.

Thanks!

 

[Brad Johnson]

I don't think you can use a single compressor to 'cheat' evenness without compromising your sound. Even in a studio, mixing engineers will most likely put 'uneven' performances through multiple compressors in series in order to not squash the sound. Generally speaking, compressor is a useful tool to make your volume sound consistent across your techniques which inherently differ in volume without having to ride a fader/volume pedal.

You've said that you want to even out the sound of your bass a lot more. By the sounds of it, you're compressing the signal way too much if you're hearing your sound squashed. There's a very good chance that you're unable to hear the subtle difference of compression until you're slamming it down.

I know that a lot of people use compressor pedals as volume boost pedals and some sort of 'tone shaping' tool. While you can use a compressor this way, its primary intentions were to make softer sounds louder and louder sounds softer.

For example, using hi fi pickup basses and playing songs where you have to play fingerstyle and pop at the same time - there could be a massive volume difference between the fingerstyle and pop (e.g. Somebody else's guy by Jocelyn Brown). You would use compressor to clamp down just the popping such that you'd get a more even response across different techniques - something you shouldn't achieve via technique imo.

Using the attack and release settings on certain compressors will definitely allow you to 'shape' your tone and you can affect the transient by bringing up the sustain, or boosting the transient but unless your performance itself is not dynamic at all, I can't see how you can use compressors this way on a pedal in a live setting - especially as a leave on effect.

I feel like compressors are more useful for people with heavier touch in general because people who dig in tend to lose more of the bottom end and sustain when playing on the higher strings compared to the lower strings so they might want to compress the lower strings to sound consistent in volume.

Or you could learn to vary your attack whichever way you're playing. Aggressive slap does not have to be loud. But I understand that this may take more time than some might see fit.

 

[BurtMacklinFBI]

Since you mentioned it “squashing” your tone, maybe try a Broughton Apex? I’m super happy with mine, the lowest frequencies are sidechained so that they don’t cause the compression to squish too aggressively. It’s awesome.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Not true. Bob olhsson has said before that bob babbitt never had compression. Bruce Swedian is on record many times stating how he hates compression and never uses it. He states in many interviews a proper musician doesn’t need it. Plenty more of the biggest and most revered in the industry have stated similar.

Learning to setup your instrument correctly so each string outputs the same is a must. Equally learning to pluck at even and Consistent levels is also a must.

The eternal struggle.

In my case I decided to exhaust my options before I looked for a fix outside my basic setup. That included technique, setup and understanding how all of the pieces work together. The beauty is that I can easily get what I want with only the fundamental ingredients: player, bass, instrument cable, amp, speaker cable, cab and power cord.Three pieces of gear, three cables.

 

[micguy]

As much text as has been given to trying to get you to understand how to use compression, you should also consider the possibility that compression just isn't your thing. I own a compressor - one with more variables you can adjust than any other compressor I've seen, and from FOH work I do know how to adjust the thing, but... for what I do on bass, Just don't find a need for the thing.

 

[MDBass]

Not true. Bob olhsson has said before that bob babbitt never had compression. Bruce Swedian is on record many times stating how he hates compression and never uses it. He states in many interviews a proper musician doesn’t need it. Plenty more of the biggest and most revered in the industry have stated similar.

Learning to setup your instrument correctly so each string outputs the same is a must. Equally learning to pluck at even and Consistent levels is also a must.

There is literally always a compressor on the master bus even if it wasn’t used on the bass track itself: Bob and Bruce are being myopic.

Bruce also did “Thriller” and there is absolutely compression being used on that record before mastering, so he might just be blowing smoke and keeping his trade secrets secret.

Even Jaco used a dB or two of peak limiting on his tracks.

 

[MDBass]

Course there are many reasons to use compression and technique does not address all of them.

This is exactly what I’m saying, and is exactly why a blanket statement like “work on your technique and you’ll never need a compressor” simply isn't true.

 

[Brad Johnson]

This is exactly what I’m saying, and is exactly why a blanket statement like “work on your technique and you’ll never need a compressor” simply isn't true.

Once again, there's what's actually written and there's where people need to take it.


I don't recall anyone saying that in this thread. Do you?

BTW the subject is not mastering as far as I can tell. It's about performance and all recorded performances are not done with compression. Because everyone doesn't need it. I know plenty of recording engineers who don't default to that. And musicians who can perform without it. Even drummers.

IME technique can address one of the most common reasons for the use of compression... controlling otherwise uncontrollable dynamics.

 

[Machiavelli]

Compression doesnt just squash, it also boosts when you do play lightly. As a fellow light touch player, i find compression to be essential.

I use TC Spectracomp

 

[tbasstreble11]

What do you mean by "unbalanced nature of the instrument"? Perhaps EQ would be a better tool if different ranges of notes are speaking louder than others.

The M87 gives you access to all of the compression parameters. This is a double edged sword. The advantage is you can dial in the sound exactly the way you want it, but for someone new to compression it tends to be frustrating.

Do you have a good understanding of what all of the controls do? IMHO that is the place to start.

I suggest you set the Ratio to 4, Attack to fast, and Release to medium. Next play some notes at your normal volume and adjust the input until you are peaking around 3-5dB on the meter. Adjust the Output so the volume is the same as when the pedal is bypassed. Now play a bit and tweak the Attack and Release so the notes sound the way you want them to sound.

Note that I am suggesting light compression. Once you get the feel for how the controls work, you can dial in higher compression if desired.

For the record, I don't generally use compression as a bass player, but I do use it a lot when I mix or play guitar.

Those compression settings sound a lot to me like what will make a bass sound squished. I can understand those settings on an electric guitar, but not so much on a bass. More on that in a moment.

OP, the link below is a fantastic tutorial on compression that should help you understand what you are trying to achieve with your compressor.



The reason I wouldn’t want a fast attack on a bass compressor is that as notes go down in pitch, their fundamental frequencies are exponentially longer in duration. That is to say, the actual time it takes for the initial strike (attack) of the low note to be produced as an audible sound wave is longer than that of a high note - we’re talking milli/microseconds here. If the compressor clamps down on that waveform before it’s reached it’s peak, it is clamping down on the attack portion of the note. That might be desirable in some situations, a la tube-compression, which happens more slowly (still milliseconds). A common technique with bass compression in the studio, which translates to live use, is to leave the attack portion of the notes alone, and speed up the attack setting of the comp until you hear the attack of the note decrease, then back it off so the notes retain their punch.

Next comes the release setting - you want the compressor to let go of the note before the attack of the following note is struck. So, slow down the release until the second of two notes begins to lose its attack, then back it off. The result is that the compressor breathes with the instrument - the bass is punchy and better defined.

Obviously this is easier in the studio than live because you are able to adjust your settings to a specific tempo, but for live work it’s not a bad idea to keep the attack slow, to allow the lower notes their punch, and the release fast enough for songs with higher tempos.

The low notes also use more energy - the threshold detects them first as they send the most energy through the signal. If you’re just wanting to generally round off the dynamics of your playing, you could set the compressor to a low (1.5/2:1) ratio and low enough threshold to grab all of the notes and thus react somewhat consistently across the fretboard. If you want to tone down your slap/pops, you could set the threshold so there’s no compression while finger styling/picking, then crank the ratio up (4:1-10:1) and adjust the threshold and ratio until those loudest pops sound controlled.

I do agree with the comment made about not being able to hear the compressor acting on the signal. If you can hear it, you can a) slow down the attack, b) speed up the release, c) raise the threshold, d) lower the ratio, or e) any combination of the above. Hope this helps.

 

[Wasnex]

Those compression settings sound a lot to me like what will make a bass sound squished. I can understand those settings on an electric guitar, but not so much on a bass. More on that in a moment.

OP, the link below is a fantastic tutorial on compression that should help you understand what you are trying to achieve with your compressor.



The reason I wouldn’t want a fast attack on a bass compressor is that as notes go down in pitch, their fundamental frequencies are exponentially longer in duration. That is to say, the actual time it takes for the initial strike (attack) of the low note to be produced as an audible sound wave is longer than that of a high note - we’re talking milli/microseconds here. If the compressor clamps down on that waveform before it’s reached it’s peak, it is clamping down on the attack portion of the note. That might be desirable in some situations, a la tube-compression, which happens more slowly (still milliseconds). A common technique with bass compression in the studio, which translates to live use, is to leave the attack portion of the notes alone, and speed up the attack setting of the comp until you hear the attack of the note decrease, then back it off so the notes retain their punch.

Next comes the release setting - you want the compressor to let go of the note before the attack of the following note is struck. So, slow down the release until the second of two notes begins to lose its attack, then back it off. The result is that the compressor breathes with the instrument - the bass is punchy and better defined.

Obviously this is easier in the studio than live because you are able to adjust your settings to a specific tempo, but for live work it’s not a bad idea to keep the attack slow, to allow the lower notes their punch, and the release fast enough for songs with higher tempos.

The low notes also use more energy - the threshold detects them first as they send the most energy through the signal. If you’re just wanting to generally round off the dynamics of your playing, you could set the compressor to a low (1.5/2:1) ratio and low enough threshold to grab all of the notes and thus react somewhat consistently across the fretboard. If you want to tone down your slap/pops, you could set the threshold so there’s no compression while finger styling/picking, then crank the ratio up (4:1-10:1) and adjust the threshold and ratio until those loudest pops sound controlled.

I do agree with the comment made about not being able to hear the compressor acting on the signal. If you can hear it, you can a) slow down the attack, b) speed up the release, c) raise the threshold, d) lower the ratio, or e) any combination of the above. Hope this helps.

Great comments , however I suggest you make sure you advice is consistent with capabilities of the M87...see "*" below.

I agree the settings I suggested would squash the sound if the input level was raised enough to produce heavy compression. But notice the low ratio and target of only 3-5dB of actual compression. That's not going to produce a squashed sound. Also, the settings I suggested are just initial settings. The Attack and Release must be adjusted to taste. The M87 manual suggests starting with the Ratio at 4 and the Attack and Release at 12:00. I am okay with those settings, but both parameter will still need to be adjusted to taste.

* The lowest compression ratio available on the M87 is 4:1; so I suggested setting it to the lowest possible ratio. I don't think I have ever used a higher ratio than about 5:1 or 6:1 while mixing any instrument or voice as I am not generally a fan of audible compression.

* The M87 has a fixed threshold, you vary the Input level to set your signals relationship to the threshold.