Lightest Flats?

[ixlramp]

I still disagree that diameter has anything to do with mass or tension,

Diameter certainly has an approximate relationship to mass. Approximate for the reason you describe, the variation of string structure altering the density of the string structure.
For smaller gauges, the core wire tends to have a gauge that is larger relative to the full gauge, a.025 may have a .012 core while a .130 has a .020 core (rough guesses). The core wire is solid metal while the wrap wire layers have air gaps.
There are also differences in number of wrap wire layers.

The assumption of constant string structure density allows some rough and useful rules to be used, which work fairly well if checked against a tension chart based on actual measured masses.
For example, a very useful rough rule is:
"For 2 strings of equal length and tension, the ratio of gauges will be roughly equal to the ratio of frequencies"
Since the frequency ratio of a fourth interval is (very close to) 4/3, the ratio of adjacent string gauges will be roughly 4/3 if equal tension is desired.
The rough rule results in the sequence .045 .060 .080 .107 which is actually a D'Addario balanced tension set. Checking the stated tensions (mass based) they are fairly equal.

 

[iiipopes]

The rough rule results in the sequence .045 .060 .080 .107 which is actually a D'Addario balanced tension set. Checking the stated tensions (mass based) they are fairly equal.

Yes, that is how I came up with custom ordering 45-60-80-105 GHS Progressive singles (107 not available) for my Rickenbacker 4002 in the mid-90's, decades before anybody else had even thought of the concept of "balanced tension" strings. I did the same thing with Rotosound Swingbass and had positive dialog with their factory rep about their E strings prematurely dying in 2005 when I was playing some Branson, MO shows on my fanned fret bass. And it is why I was glad D'Addario came up with their EXL170BT set for my Ibby (with a 130 tuned to low C to complete the balanced set for me) and now GHS is soon to release a balanced Progressives set, which preview correspondence with Jon Moody indicates the gauges will be 44-60-80-106, to go along with their two Balanced Pure Nickels sets.

 

[JimmyM]

Yes, that is how I came up with custom ordering 45-60-80-105 GHS Progressive singles (107 not available) for my Rickenbacker 4002 in the mid-90's, decades before anybody else had even thought of the concept of "balanced tension" strings. I did the same thing with Rotosound Swingbass and had positive dialog with their factory rep about their E strings prematurely dying in 2005 when I was playing some Branson, MO shows on my fanned fret bass. And it is why I was glad D'Addario came up with their EXL170BT set for my Ibby (with a 130 tuned to low C to complete the balanced set for me) and now GHS is soon to release a balanced Progressives set, which preview correspondence with Jon Moody indicates the gauges will be 44-60-80-106, to go along with their two Balanced Pure Nickels sets.

Balanced tension really does rule. I used to use D'addario XL's and always had a problem with the D string feeling more tense and like its action is always too high in comparison to the others, even when it obviously wasn't. Balanced tension made that problem go away. Now I use Dunlop SBN's and they're made balanced and you don't have to get the special packages or buy singles.

 

[iiipopes]

Balanced tension really does rule. I used to use D'addario XL's and always had a problem with the D string feeling more tense and like its action is always too high in comparison to the others, even when it obviously wasn't. Balanced tension made that problem go away. Now I use Dunlop SBN's and they're made balanced and you don't have to get the special packages or buy singles.

Which set of SBN's? I see on the Dunlop web site that they have one set of medium scale flats in 45-60-80-105, but I don't see any other set that has the balanced gauges.

 

[DavidEdenAria]

I finally sprung for two sets of Labella's, the LTs and 760FX Deep Talkin'. Put the the LTs on the old P/J and viola! Perfect, the lower tension corrected the bowing, and what a huge difference in feel and tone from the Fender 9050s I've been using for so many years! No sense of "floppiness" at all. Worth the extra bucks, bigtime. Gonna put the 760s on my Jazz in place of the D'Addadrio half rounds I've been using. BTW although the 760s are actually thinner than the LTs Labella confirms that the LTs are lighter tension due to the round vs hex core.

How do the 760s compare to the Fender 9050s? I have an old set of 760s on a MIM J bass and love the tone and feel and 9050's on several other basses so i appreciate the 'old school thump' of the 760's but like the 9050s as well, a bit more zing and sustain.

Curious as a 9050 user, have you used both types of 9050's as in the ones before D'Adarrio took over later production as well as later versions?

I have a well worn set and a newer set of 9050's and they seem very similar....may go to Labella LTs next.

 

[JimmyM]

Which set of SBN's? I see on the Dunlop web site that they have one set of medium scale flats in 45-60-80-105, but I don't see any other set that has the balanced gauges.

Gauge is only slightly related to tension. The core wires (which are thinner in Dunlop SBN's and flats) have some say in that, as well as the windings.

 

[ixlramp]

Diameter certainly has an approximate relationship to mass.

Oops, of course i mean:
"For a particular string type ..."
And the rough rule only applies for 2 strings of the same string type.
Generally, tension is unrelated to diameter, it is only dependent on vibrating length, frequency and 'unit mass'.

negriljerry, i think i may have misunderstood the first post, i interpreted 'shot truss rod' as the rod having zero tension, in which case i was expecting an ultra-light set was necessary. I use ultra-light sets and my truss rods tend to be only very slightly tightened.

 

[iiipopes]

Gauge is only slightly related to tension. The core wires (which are thinner in Dunlop SBN's and flats) have some say in that, as well as the windings.

Yes. Since the early '90's, when I first learned the formula, I have said mass in relation to pitch, not diameter, is what determines tension by the formula well known. If you don't have the manufacturer's tension charts, and don't have the equipment to measure the mass, then all you have is the diameter approximations, which can be surprisingly close for some brands, models and gauges of strings.

 

[LetItGrowTone]

Old thread. Doesn't matter.

In terms of the actual tension (as in pulling weight), the La Bella Low Tension Flats (42-100, 134.9 lbs.) are lighter than the TI Jazz Flats (43-100, 140.2 lbs.)

Oh, what's this?
This is possible because the outer winding of TIJFs is nickel, which is denser than steel (about 8.8 vs about 7.8 g/cm3).