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Lightning Boy Audio Thread
- Thread starter HoochfromP
- Start date
I emailed Mike and he said he does have more 23Fe inventory that should show up on the site soon.
A fellow Talkbass member sent me a 23Fe and I've been able to spend some quality time with it. I've used it in several scenarios including a couple of live events where I was direct to FOH (with IEMs) and in my home studio in front of several preamps and behind preamps and after different basses and with different pedals.
First off, it definitely has more audible "color" than the previous Lightningboy transformer products. To me, that is a good thing. The next important piece of information is that you need to understand these transformers are not effects pedals. Therefore, don't expect obvious or overwhelming tonal differences with one in your signal path than something like an OD pedal or distortion or chorus effect. That said, with a 23FE in your signal chain you will hear differences albeit sometimes subtle.
Drive the transformer with a strong input and it will break up. Use it immediately after a bass guitar and before everything else in your chain and to my ear I hear a widening effect. I also feel it meaning the attack of my playing feels different in a good way.
I exchanged emails with Mike at Lightningboy which confirmed some things I was hearing.
1. It seems like I might be losing a little low end when the 23Fe was present. This is most noticed in my home studio with studio monitors.
Mike confirmed that all frequencies at 28Hz and above are attenuated to some varying degree. The range with the next least attenuation is the 1.4kHz-21.15kHz range with about -2dB +/-2dB. The area with the greatest attenuation is in the bass range from about 52Hz-576Hz or so, and at -4dB +/-1dB.
In other words, you aren't getting a flat response when playing through the 23Fe. But, that is not necessarily a bad thing. A little EQ (either from your bass or somewhere else) will restore whatever you feel you are missing.
Mike said the dominant frequency is 28Hz. Interesting.
Bottom line is that to my ear I am hearing more mids pop out when playing through the 23Fe.
2. It seems like I might be losing a bit of volume when playing through the 23Fe.
Mike confirmed there is about 2dB of insertion loss. So not really much at all. Anything in front of the 23Fe that can boost will totally offset that minimal volume loss. In fact, putting a boost in front of the 23Fe can do really nice things sonically. I.E. some nice warmth that isn't really distortion in the sense of OD, but nice harmonic breakup.
In case you are wondering, no you don't need a boost pedal in front of the 23Fe to benefit from it. I played 6 different basses through the 23Fe and I preferred the tone with the 23Fe inline in each case. Just 23Fe to DI box to console sounds better to my ear. I'd describe it as livelier. But again, these aren't radical audible revelations. It isn't an in-your-face audible kind of thing. The non-flat frequency response is a form of distortion, the inductive nature of the transformer leads to some phase distortion, there is a small amount of harmonic distortion, etc. It isn't a wooly tone. Driving it harder makes everything more obvious.
I suppose some will question whether it is worth the price of admission. Or maybe better said, is there enough sonic goodness to justify the pedalboard space and cost. For me it is equally as much about the feel when playing through it and the sonic value it adds. You will of course need to come to your own conclusion. If expectations are reasonable, I suspect most would definitely prefer having one of these in their signal path.
One scenario that really does it for me is bass into 23Fe into by Neural Quad Cortex. It makes playing through a digital device feel more natural — like a bit of natural sag. I quite like the 23Fe in this setup. Maybe it is placebo effect, but it feels more like I'm playing through a real tube amp.
Finally, it was when playing live in a direct to FOH scenario with IEM's that I most appreciated the 23Fe.
Anyway, hope this helps.
First off, it definitely has more audible "color" than the previous Lightningboy transformer products. To me, that is a good thing. The next important piece of information is that you need to understand these transformers are not effects pedals. Therefore, don't expect obvious or overwhelming tonal differences with one in your signal path than something like an OD pedal or distortion or chorus effect. That said, with a 23FE in your signal chain you will hear differences albeit sometimes subtle.
Drive the transformer with a strong input and it will break up. Use it immediately after a bass guitar and before everything else in your chain and to my ear I hear a widening effect. I also feel it meaning the attack of my playing feels different in a good way.
I exchanged emails with Mike at Lightningboy which confirmed some things I was hearing.
1. It seems like I might be losing a little low end when the 23Fe was present. This is most noticed in my home studio with studio monitors.
Mike confirmed that all frequencies at 28Hz and above are attenuated to some varying degree. The range with the next least attenuation is the 1.4kHz-21.15kHz range with about -2dB +/-2dB. The area with the greatest attenuation is in the bass range from about 52Hz-576Hz or so, and at -4dB +/-1dB.
In other words, you aren't getting a flat response when playing through the 23Fe. But, that is not necessarily a bad thing. A little EQ (either from your bass or somewhere else) will restore whatever you feel you are missing.
Mike said the dominant frequency is 28Hz. Interesting.
Bottom line is that to my ear I am hearing more mids pop out when playing through the 23Fe.
2. It seems like I might be losing a bit of volume when playing through the 23Fe.
Mike confirmed there is about 2dB of insertion loss. So not really much at all. Anything in front of the 23Fe that can boost will totally offset that minimal volume loss. In fact, putting a boost in front of the 23Fe can do really nice things sonically. I.E. some nice warmth that isn't really distortion in the sense of OD, but nice harmonic breakup.
In case you are wondering, no you don't need a boost pedal in front of the 23Fe to benefit from it. I played 6 different basses through the 23Fe and I preferred the tone with the 23Fe inline in each case. Just 23Fe to DI box to console sounds better to my ear. I'd describe it as livelier. But again, these aren't radical audible revelations. It isn't an in-your-face audible kind of thing. The non-flat frequency response is a form of distortion, the inductive nature of the transformer leads to some phase distortion, there is a small amount of harmonic distortion, etc. It isn't a wooly tone. Driving it harder makes everything more obvious.
I suppose some will question whether it is worth the price of admission. Or maybe better said, is there enough sonic goodness to justify the pedalboard space and cost. For me it is equally as much about the feel when playing through it and the sonic value it adds. You will of course need to come to your own conclusion. If expectations are reasonable, I suspect most would definitely prefer having one of these in their signal path.
One scenario that really does it for me is bass into 23Fe into by Neural Quad Cortex. It makes playing through a digital device feel more natural — like a bit of natural sag. I quite like the 23Fe in this setup. Maybe it is placebo effect, but it feels more like I'm playing through a real tube amp.
Finally, it was when playing live in a direct to FOH scenario with IEM's that I most appreciated the 23Fe.
Anyway, hope this helps.
+1 to everything scubaduba explained. I came to similar conclusions on my 23e.
Level: a little drop but easily dealt with by some make up gain pre or post. More level in leads to more of it's character but hard to seperate that from the 'louder sounds better' effect.
Eq: yes it's doing something, but it's subtle so feels like a vibe rather than an issue or loss. I'm fussy about low end loss. For me the 23e tightens my low end and reduces my wooly boom, which I didn't realise was there until the 23e. It didn't feel like a loss of low end, more like a gentle massage that it needed.
Character: I perceive some lovely mild compression. And I normally avoid compression and have never kept a compressor on my board.
Chain: I don't like it direct in. My sustain sounded driven seperate to attack, in a non preferred way. Hard to explain. I've committed to the 23e at the end of my chain. I don't notice it when engaging distortions and fuzzes through it. Interestingly, it made modulation fx (chorus, phaser) sound better placed afterwards - clearer and tighter. Paired great with a mild always on transparent drive in front.
Overall: I like that this is a 'commitment' device. Like changing pickups, strings, amp head or cab, you're committing to the tonal change and accepting it is what it is. I like that it helped me discover that my tone was too wooly and needed taming. I especially like the mild compression vibe. I liken it to a preset on a compressor set to mild. It's more than just a preset eq curve (which I would have still been happy with, as it's size is so convenient).
Context: flats on a passive humbucker 32 scale bass, 75% finger 25% pick playing, old school mild drive tone territory. Modulation and distortion fx are occasional not always.
The 23e has been my gateway from observer to participant here on TB - 1st post. Shout out to the TB community for the amazing collective knowledge and sharing of experience. Shoutout to LBA for pushing the envelope too.
Level: a little drop but easily dealt with by some make up gain pre or post. More level in leads to more of it's character but hard to seperate that from the 'louder sounds better' effect.
Eq: yes it's doing something, but it's subtle so feels like a vibe rather than an issue or loss. I'm fussy about low end loss. For me the 23e tightens my low end and reduces my wooly boom, which I didn't realise was there until the 23e. It didn't feel like a loss of low end, more like a gentle massage that it needed.
Character: I perceive some lovely mild compression. And I normally avoid compression and have never kept a compressor on my board.
Chain: I don't like it direct in. My sustain sounded driven seperate to attack, in a non preferred way. Hard to explain. I've committed to the 23e at the end of my chain. I don't notice it when engaging distortions and fuzzes through it. Interestingly, it made modulation fx (chorus, phaser) sound better placed afterwards - clearer and tighter. Paired great with a mild always on transparent drive in front.
Overall: I like that this is a 'commitment' device. Like changing pickups, strings, amp head or cab, you're committing to the tonal change and accepting it is what it is. I like that it helped me discover that my tone was too wooly and needed taming. I especially like the mild compression vibe. I liken it to a preset on a compressor set to mild. It's more than just a preset eq curve (which I would have still been happy with, as it's size is so convenient).
Context: flats on a passive humbucker 32 scale bass, 75% finger 25% pick playing, old school mild drive tone territory. Modulation and distortion fx are occasional not always.
The 23e has been my gateway from observer to participant here on TB - 1st post. Shout out to the TB community for the amazing collective knowledge and sharing of experience. Shoutout to LBA for pushing the envelope too.
Right on! Thanks for sharing your detailed and contextualized experience. High bar for a first post but I’m not worried, plenty of time to devolve like the rest of us
This is where the 2020 sounded best to me. They sound great when used with my amp, but the digital fx really come alive with these transformers. I like using one after my LA-1A going into my HX Stomp or immediately out of the Stomp and feeding into an LBA T.I. Box. Based on what you and @OnlyFlats report, I think I want a 2023Fe to run at the front of the chain now so I can keep the other on the 'out'.
I used to have two 2020ses and I really liked what they provided. It was subtle though and situational.
I bought a 23fe today; looking forward to hearing/feeling what it brings
I bought a 23fe today; looking forward to hearing/feeling what it brings
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
My experience with the 23Fe is that depending on the application it is not transparent. It isn’t an effects pedal but it can certainly not be transparent.
- Feb 16, 2008
- 21,240
- 23,636
- Disclosures
- John K Custom Basses
Any application with digital effects is a great use of the 23Fe.
For those that don’t know, the electrical characteristics of the input into a given transformer and the load connected to the output of that given transformer have quite an impact on the results.
Pedals that encapsulate a transformer between input and output circuitry and, thus, present consistent input and output conditions will deliver more consistent results than a transformer in the nude.
Pedals that encapsulate a transformer between input and output circuitry and, thus, present consistent input and output conditions will deliver more consistent results than a transformer in the nude.
I experimented quite a bit with placement of the 2020ses. Some permutations were near transparent, others definitely not. I figure the 23fe will be the same
I've two 2020's hiding under my pedal board and I think i like the idea of what this 23Fe will do. Gonna get one and see how it flavours the overall sound!
I think you will find the 23Fe to be more noticeable.
Yeah I hope so - not that I don't appreciate what the 2020s units are doing but I think i might be able to lose a low gain drive pedal and use the existing boost on another preamp into the 23FE for extra little colouration. I'm not expecting massive fx unit type impact but I hope to hear just that little 'spice'. I like to think of it like a stock cube you add to the pot - it adds a little flavour and dimension without overpowering the pot!
It's already shipped - wonderful service from Mike @lightningboy - so just a waiting game until it arrives in Scotland! I'll be driving it with a Simone and I've been enjoying using the boost more and more recently but like anything moving it along the signal path until it hits the sweet spot is gonna be the plan. There will be no shortages of wet weekends to send an afternoon experimenting!
I found the 23FE to add quite a bit more color than two 2020s. However, I ended up getting rid of it prior to posting any recordings of it (apologies for not following through on that; work has been crazy the past few months).
The more I used the 23FE, the less I felt it was necessary in my signal chain. I could see it adding some beneficial coloration in the right signal chain. My issue is that I was really happy with my tone before adding it. It added more of what I thought I was after in my tone. It ended up being too much for me.
For reference, signal chain was... Bass -> Broughton BBA -> Empress Bass Compressor -> Broughton Valve Champ -> Modulation/drive stuff (typically turned off) -> Effectrode LA-1A -> Broughton RFE -> Ampeg PF-50T -> 2 x PJB Compact 8
I had the 23FE after the Effectrode LA-1A so I could use the boost on the LA-1A to push the 23FE.
Definitely agree with comments on slight signal loss and low mid bump. I think the moral of my story is that if you are happy with your sound, you really do not need to try new things (disclaimer: this will likely not be the last time I try something new that I did not need to try).
The more I used the 23FE, the less I felt it was necessary in my signal chain. I could see it adding some beneficial coloration in the right signal chain. My issue is that I was really happy with my tone before adding it. It added more of what I thought I was after in my tone. It ended up being too much for me.
For reference, signal chain was... Bass -> Broughton BBA -> Empress Bass Compressor -> Broughton Valve Champ -> Modulation/drive stuff (typically turned off) -> Effectrode LA-1A -> Broughton RFE -> Ampeg PF-50T -> 2 x PJB Compact 8
I had the 23FE after the Effectrode LA-1A so I could use the boost on the LA-1A to push the 23FE.
Definitely agree with comments on slight signal loss and low mid bump. I think the moral of my story is that if you are happy with your sound, you really do not need to try new things (disclaimer: this will likely not be the last time I try something new that I did not need to try).
