line out vs mic

[lackthereof]

I prefer mics, however, I will work with an engineer to find a happy medium. Direct/Post from the amp (Aguilar DB751 or AG500) is acceptable because I use effects and different gain settings throughout the set(s). Direct from the instrument is like a slap in the face.

 

[Tim C.]

i most certainly can have an opinion, and my opinion is that if you can't handle a mic'ed bass amp, you suck.

You are one of my bass heroes just for keeping it real all the time.

Haters gonna hate, JimmyM. Haters gonna hate.

 

[JayAmel]

Direct from the instrument is like a slap in the face.

Same for me, I have a hard time liking the "dry" signal from the bass D.Ied. Best alternative I have found is the VT Bass, which gives much grain to the tone, and actually sounds close to what one'd get from a mic'ed amp. Requires to have very good stage monitors, though.

 

[One Drop]

... This line vs mic topic comes up every few months and always gets heated. The sad thing is some posters who have years of experience doing sound get shouted down by some members so they quit posting. It is actually the forums loss because you will need to go elsewhere to find some help about PA /sound issues.

I think in the end we all pull out out of these threads what we need or want, whether it's a solution, an argument, or a just validation of what we already know. I doubt many people read threads to find out 'who won' or 'what the correct answer is' but rather ' what is useful to me here' or 'what can I learn or contribute'. No useful info in a thread is lost, and might even shine out brighter amidst the posturing and trenchant opinions that pollute so many of these threads.

BTW I think we all knew you were joking about the Genz, etc, you needn't worry about that.

 

[JimmyM]

Same for me, I have a hard time liking the "dry" signal from the bass D.Ied. Best alternative I have found is the VT Bass, which gives much grain to the tone, and actually sounds close to what one'd get from a mic'ed amp. Requires to have very good stage monitors, though.

ya, honestly, i think it's just as good in a live situation. i'll be the first to admit there's more than one way to skin a cat. but i like how the mic looks and i hate wasting my rig on me and me alone

 

[JimmyM]

ok, guys, i have a confession...

on two outdoor gigs recently, it's looked like rain, so instead of my b-15 or svt, i brought a tech 21 british character pedal i had modded to have more low end and a di, a crate power block, and one of my b-15 cabs. i went di from the british instead of micing, too. even though it's a marshall emulator, i got a sound that's very similar to my b-15. on both gigs, the soundmen came up to me after the first set and told me how much they loved it, and they both said they prefer it over the mic.

naturally i had to see for myself, so during the next set, i went out into the audience a couple times. you know what? it wasn't better than the mic, but as far as i was concerned it was just as good.

most normal people would be overjoyed at this news, but i have to admit i'm bumming pretty hard over it. since returning to my vintage ampegs full-time a couple years ago, the one thing i have considered to be such a big waste is having these great amps and running a di and not sharing their greatness with the audience. i have hoisted them proudly, and never once was bothered by lugging them around. nor was i bothered by carrying around the mic and z-bar and setting them up on my rig, despite them taking up a huge amount of real estate in my accesories bag.

but if a $150 pedal can get me the same results in the house as a $2500 rig and a $325 mic, why am i even bothering with a mic, or even my ampegs? ok, it looks awesome onstage, which counts, and it does feel more satisfying as a player to use one of the ampeg rigs, but these soundmen made me feel like i'm just whacking myself off and needlessly complicating my life.

not really looking for advice here...as a tb veteran, i know the only advice i get will be either drop the ampegs/mic or don't. but it looks like i have to reassess my priorities.

 

[JayAmel]

Jimmy, I have also experienced both through the last 12 months : with/without amp. I have set a rule for myself : on venues where the guitar player takes his amp, I take mine. On venues where he doesn't, I don't either. Actually, we take our amps for large venues these days. For smaller ones I D.I. my bass (with VT Bass between), and the guitar player plugs his Boss GT-something in stereo to the board. Works fine. Last show on Monday evening, the guys from the other band who played there were stunned by the bass tone. Yes, that was the VT Bass (pretty small venue).

 

[JimmyM]

Jimmy, I have also experienced both through the last 12 months : with/without amp. I have set a rule for myself : on venues where the guitar player takes his amp, I take mine. On venues where he doesn't, I don't either. Actually, we take our amps for large venues these days. For smaller ones I D.I. my bass (with VT Bass between), and the guitar player plugs his Boss GT-something in stereo to the board. Works fine. Last show on Monday evening, the guys from the other band who played there were stunned by the bass tone. Yes, that was the VT Bass (pretty small venue).

so ampless works for you in small venues but not large, eh? i would think it would be the exact opposite. but i'll tell you, you're making me want to try ampless again. i did a handful of times in the past and hated it, but there was no vt when i tried it before. maybe i need to talk with our guitarist and see about getting together on this. he's been playing with his amp really quiet lately and running loud through his monitor, so if he's game and the rest of the band thinks they can deal with us being ampless, i may go ahead and try it again.

 

[JayAmel]

so ampless works for you in small venues but not large, eh? i would think it would be the exact opposite. but i'll tell you, you're making me want to try ampless again. i did a handful of times in the past and hated it, but there was no vt when i tried it before. maybe i need to talk with our guitarist and see about getting together on this. he's been playing with his amp really quiet lately and running loud through his monitor, so if he's game and the rest of the band thinks they can deal with us being ampless, i may go ahead and try it again.

Actually, with amp & without amp can work for me in any situation. It's more a matter of "how it looks". Having the guitar player bring his Mesa stack and me having no amp would look odd.

Why it works ampless for me even in the small venues is because, no matter where we play, the PA system we bring is always "way more than enough". So we have headroom, and when you have headroom it's a lot easier to get the right tone for everyone.

 

[modulusman]

so ampless works for you in small venues but not large, eh? i would think it would be the exact opposite. but i'll tell you, you're making me want to try ampless again. i did a handful of times in the past and hated it, but there was no vt when i tried it before. maybe i need to talk with our guitarist and see about getting together on this. he's been playing with his amp really quiet lately and running loud through his monitor, so if he's game and the rest of the band thinks they can deal with us being ampless, i may go ahead and try it again.

Jimmy are you going over to the dark side? If you do try it again I would be interested in what you think. I also agree that going ampless at bigger venues is a better option. If you are using a small PA then an amp becomes more important.

 

[zombywoof5050]

For those who use effects that think they need to mic in order to get the affected sound, it's not true. You can go bass -> effects -> DI -> amp.

 

[PunkSweeper]

In typical teenager fashion, I've found my own solution that I consider superior to what all the adults are doing.

I use some pedals, such as an amp modeler and distortion, than to the passive D.I.. From there I go to the board, and an excerpt from a PA system to use on stage. Basically, I bring my own monitor, get whats on stage out to the audience, provided the sound guy doesn't mess with it too much.

I wouldn't use a mic'd cab if it was easy, as I don't prefer how traditional bass cabs sound.

 

[faulknersj]

Jimmy, how did you mod your tech 21 british charactar pedal?

 

[JimmyM]

Jimmy, how did you mod your tech 21 british charactar pedal?

www.putnamguitars.com did it. there's a mod on there called the (ahem) jimmy mod, which adds an extra knob that allows you to dial in more low frequencies since both the british and marshall amps are a bit anemic on the lows.

 

[faulknersj]

Wow! How does it compare to a VT?

 

[D.A.R.K.]

So, I'm mixing wynonna Judd tonight in dc
at the Mellon auditorium.
Not only the bass, but the guitar are di.
Active radials.
I asked both musicians their preference,
they prefer di only, bass straight in and gtr
post fx processor.
Bassist playing a yamaha trb,
said he was more comfortable having me adjust
the sound to fit in the mix.
And it sounds killer, if I do say so myself.
My point?
There is no one solution, and being flexible
to try different things can't hurt when it comes
to getting a good mix.
Cheers

 

[phsycobass]

As a sound engineer and a bass player, I tend to prefer the DI route because i gives a cleaner and more consistant signal that tends to translate very well into the pa and in a mix. However if the player would rather have a mic or a mic and DI (channels permitting) I have absolutely NO problem acomodating this. To me it's a non-issue. The player knows their tone best and my job is to work with the band, not dictate.
On the rare occasion that the player requests a mic and their amp tone is muddy and terrible, I will ask if we can add a DI. If they refuse, then it's their problem, not mine. On the other hand, bassists sometimes don't realise that their amp tone does not translate that well in a mix. The bottom line is that, if you have a good soundman, he should be willing to mic your cab upon request, but you should also be willing to plug into his DI as well as a mic.

 

[JimmyM]

Wow! How does it compare to a VT?

it's right up there with the vt. you can cop similar sounds, but they're definitely more marshall flavored than the vt. i didn't even buy it to use on bass...i bought it for guitar, but it had such a cool overdrive that reminded me so much of jack bruce that i had to use it on bass.

 

[faulknersj]

Well all this talk has got me thinking I need a VT. Damn this never ending quest for tone.

 

[somedumbguy]

The world is full of idiots, the same is true for musicians and soundmen.

I used to be a soundman for about four years and let me say this:

The reason for DI has more to do with the fact that most bass players are idiots.

Not you talkbass, you guys are cool.

But I can not possibly count the number of times I've seen a super exaggerated smiley face EQ and then they ask me to turn them up. It's ridiculous.

So a DI is a natural solution for most bass players. It allowed me a chance to sculpt a tone that would actually sound pretty good.

That being said, if a bass player ever asked me to mic their cab, I asked to listen to it. If it was a sound that sounded good, then no problem, let's go.

But if it sounded bad, I always told them I would still do it, but I also asked them DI it for a few minutes just to hear the difference. They usually always agreed with me.