line out vs mic

[D.A.R.K.]

wow, this thread has some nasty moments.
kind of sad.
how many of those with such strong opinions of one method vs. the other(whichever that may be) have actually run sound systems professionally i wonder?
i think a lot of extreme opinions here are from lack of that type of experience.
fwiw, i try both methods, and frequently a combination of both is what works best.
i like how a mic can capture the sound the bass player hears from their amp... especially if processing is being used, like distortion etc.
having a di, though, can save your ass if the amp takes a dump (i've had this experience more than a few times in my career).
just some food for thought.

 

[JimmyM]

i have experience on both sides of the board. i prefer the sound of the mic when i've got an amp that's good, and i prefer a di when the amp sucks.

 

[jaywa]

Around here, unfortunately, a lot of the soundmen it seems don't even get the concept of appropriate kick drum to bass guitar LEVELS. Much less bass tone. I know Jimmy and I'm sure others on this board roll with a higher level of supporting tech talent than others of us, but as a representative of the "small-town weekend warrior" demographic, bassists are happy just to be heard in the mix at all. In my main cover band (where we run sound from the stage), I can make sure that's not an issue but in situations where I'm subbing with other bands or we're using a house provided soundman it can be pretty hit-and-miss.

But that's a topic for another thread of which I'm sure there are several hundred archived already.

 

[JackANSI]

In my experience so far, the people I've worked with that "prefer" DI seem to have cabs that they didn't know they hated (mainly because they think their ears are on their knees like a guitarist) or are using a mic that is ill suited for their tonal goals/SPL. Seriously.. get down there on the floor and put your ear right where you 'tried' a mic and tell me if it sounds good... (at your own risk of course)..



Granted this doesn't apply to all the DI lovers on talkbass of course... They have spent [DEL]thousands[/DEL] millions, if not more, on all kinds of mics and played live through every cab ever created and have the best of the best to draw their conclusions from...




I did an about face once I gave in and started using some quality mics for live stuff (ie listening to JimmyM). Used to be DI only myself (still am on my own rig 99% of the time), but now when I'm behind the board I like to have at least a good mic with a DI backup. It has never once caused me a headache as far as total live volume. One bass guitar mic is never the straw that breaks that camels back..

I've also found that if the mic looks like its expensive to replace, people seem to treat it WAY better than they did an SM57/58..

 

[JimmyM]

btw, since we don't carry our own soundman usually (not enough money to go around), the quality does vary. and it's inevitably the worst ones who complain about my mic. the good ones roll with anything you give them.

 

[TL5]

how many of those with such strong opinions of one method vs. the other(whichever that may be) have actually run sound systems professionally i wonder?

My full-time, every day, job is live sound. I have worked with broadcast audio in the past. I have worked along side and with some names you'd recognize. MOST (95% +) of what I do now is corporate, 'cuz I don't travel, but I get tossed an occasional fun gig from time to time now.

I play bass for fun, recreation, and a buck or two every now and then.

My preferences; If I'm monitoring IEM, then a DI works just fine. I'll use a VT Bass pedal into a passive DI.
If I use my stack (or half stack), then I prefer to mic the cabinet.

The grey area oddball set-up is a medium stage with PA and using a small kick-back as a bass monitor. That can go either way, but I tend to prefer the DI w/the VT pedal and split it back to the kick-back through the DI.

This weekend, I played the half stack mic'd with a modified SM57 (Terry Manning/TapeOp mod) even though I monitored with IEM.

 

[megadan]

my policy is the less live mics on stage the better.

See, I agree with this, but in practice it's not always the case - some sound guys are just biases against bass players.

I play in a 5 piece instrumental band - being an instrumental band, the main focus is - duh - the sound of the instruments! so I always prefer a mic for the bass, as I use lots of dirt and effects that sound better through a good cab. Sound guys often cite the above dogma - however, I point out there are are NO vocal mics to bleed, which means compared to any given band of the same size, we have FAR less bleed on stage, and surely 1 bass amp mic is far less bleed than 3 or 4 open vocal mics. But sadly this doesn't convince them most of the time...

So no, it's not always just a matter of bleed. Sadly, a lot of the time my sound ends up as a big, icky, mushy bleeting out of the subwoofers instead of the fat, glassy, biting tone it's supposed to be

The nice thing about being instrumental is that we can often forgo the PA all together, and after 5 years of playings together we've gotten very good at balancing the levels out between all the instruments.

 

[modulusman]

i have experience on both sides of the board. i prefer the sound of the mic when i've got an amp that's good, and i prefer a di when the amp sucks.

You also have changed the oil in your car. That doesn't make you a mechanic.

 

[JerBo]

You also have changed the oil in your car. That doesn't make you a mechanic.

What does that even mean?
Seriously, some of your comments make you sound like a real douche.
I wouldn't want to be in a "band" with you.

 

[JimmyM]

seriously, jerbo! holy crap, what arrogance! people have questions about their pa, his answer's always "your pa is crap." people like to do things differently from him, his reply is always some sarcastic talking-down answer like he's a big genius and you're a moron for daring to do things differently.

i think i will have to put him on ignore.

 

[faulknersj]

Modulus man is quite the critic....and u know what they say about critics. Must be Paul McCartneys sound engineer or something? Jeez.

 

[The Owl]

im curious why most of us line out or DI box the bass rather than mic ing the bass i find with DI you never get that warmth that you get from your amp......we as players work so hard to get that personal perfect sound to our ears on stage but yet out front it sounds different would it not be easier to mimic my stage sound with a mic.?........in the future im thinking of trying any advice or tips ...for now im going to experiment my line out Post/Pre EQ to hear the diff im thinking post should be more natural sounding???

I prefer to do a combination of both mic and DI. I can keep my stage volume at a reasonable level, and with a good mic, I can capture the overtones, harmonics and warmth from the speaker. Seems a SHURE SM57 in my case seems to get me a nice mid sound with the overtones and harmonics though a good large-diaphragm condenser does very well too.

 

[stiles72]

What I want:
SVT 3 Pros = XLR line out from back of head
B15N = Mic

What I usually get or am forced to use by Soundmen:
Direct box between my bass and amp/rig.

Having said that... I had a great B15 experience Saturday!

My oldies band played an outdoor show with another group, both using the same soundman and sound system. When I took my B15 onstage, the previous bass player and guitar player were looking over my amp, and said "Nice Reissue!" When I told them it was a '63, they thought I was crazy for gigging with it! Before the soundman had a chance to offer me a DI, I micd it up real quick and had it all plugged into the snake. I was using a P-bass with flats with the tone knob all the way down, and had the Portaflex Gain at about 11:00, Treble at Noon, and Bass at 3:00. On first break, he came up to me and said that he had planned to ask me to use a DI- but went on to say that the micd B15 was one of the sweetest sounding bass rigs he's heard in a long time, and that he was glad he didn't ask me to use the direct box!

So there are some good soundmen after all who do appreciate vintage gear!!!

(Yeah I copied this from another post....)

 

[alexwittscheck]

You also have changed the oil in your car. That doesn't make you a mechanic.

Really? Come on dude. I mean I love pretending I'm right all the time too. But, there is a line. Just give it up. You have made your point. Move on. You are distracting us from productive conversation.

 

[alexwittscheck]

So there are some good soundmen after all who do appreciate vintage gear!!!

That's comforting to know. Haha.

 

[JimmyM]

btw, i hate those wussies who think you shouldn't be gigging with vintage gear. the whole reason i fixed up my old ampegs is so i could gig with them. i don't take them out in the rain or anything, but those old vintage ampegs will hold up as well or better than anything new if you use reasonable care like you would any other amp. And if they get destroyed one day, oh well...it was fun while it lasted

 

[alexwittscheck]

Yeah, a friend/mentor told me this about vintage gear: if you can make more money using it than letting it sit there, use it. If you don't want to use it, sell it because it is wasting space.

 

[modulusman]

seriously, jerbo! holy crap, what arrogance! people have questions about their pa, his answer's always "your pa is crap." people like to do things differently from him, his reply is always some sarcastic talking-down answer like he's a big genius and you're a moron for daring to do things differently.

i think i will have to put him on ignore.

You probably should. Just curious Jimmy, do you consider yourself a professional soundman. D.A.R.K asked how many people run sound systems professionally. Then you replied I have experience on both sides of the board So tell us about your career as a soundman.

 

[JimmyM]

not that it has anything at all to do with this argument, but i'll humor you...of course i don't consider myself a pro soundman. but i've run sound many times before, and if i wanted to be a pro soundman, i would be one of the best out there, no doubt about it. i do, however, have tons of experience engineering and producing recordings.

now please tell me in your own inimitable arrogant yet unlikable way what me not being a pro soundman has the least little thing to do with preferring a mic over a di. i can't wait for this one.

 

[wade_b]

Hey Wade hows it hanging. The kick drum gets completely lost in the mix 50 ft from stage IME.

Not really. The tone could be better though, but that's an acoustic drum setup issue and not a PA issue. I'm pressuring him to get a front head on his kick, and maybe change the tuning. If it doesn't sound good acoustically, it won't sound good mic'ed up either. Plus, our drummer has a hammer foot - he's our resident rockstar, having been signed to a label with a hardcore metal act and a few tours under his belt.

I see you're gettin' em all riled up over here. Some things never change LOL

Hey, I'll say this: you're consistent in your approach.

I can't wait to get back to playing some gigs - this month off has got me bouncing off walls...

I would say I hate modulus basses too but I've never had the chance to play one. SO instead, I'll stretch and say that the one graphite neck instrumet I did play (a washburn guitar) had a terrible fretboard feel and tone. LOL