Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
line out vs mic
- Thread starter stonewall
- Start date
OK, stupid question probably, but here goes. I have a 1000 watt Carvin Rig and on outside gigs I still feel like I don't have enough power. I recently added a sub to our PA system ( it's a 1000 watt Yamaha powered mixer) via an old bass rig through a line out on the PA. What I was thinking about doing was adding another cab to the sub system so we would have 1x15 on one side and 2x15 on the other, running out of a 500 watt bass head. We mike the kick drum and I would like to run a DI out of my SansAmp. Obviously the sub system would only be running through the mains.
Being an idiot when it comes to PA systems in general, I was hoping Jimmy ( or anyone I guess) could tell me if this is a good/feasible plan to increase my volume without over driving my bass rig?
Being an idiot when it comes to PA systems in general, I was hoping Jimmy ( or anyone I guess) could tell me if this is a good/feasible plan to increase my volume without over driving my bass rig?
fair enough, but that can happen no matter what instrument or what method of delivery you choose.
ii AM on a mission, but it's not the mission you think it is. if someone likes the di, great...no problem. my mission is to stop soundmen from dictating to bands and forcing them to do things that make the bands uncomfortable.
Jimmy , you really are on a mission !!!!
you should be named ; "Lord Of The Mike"
That "working for us" phrase is an important distinction and I'm glad Jimmy specified that. If the soundman is being paid out of the band's pocket, then of course it's his job to make the band sound however they want -- and it is also the band's prerogative to replace him at the point he's not doing that to their satisfaction for whatever reason.
OTOH if you're on a festival or some other multi-band venue and there is one FOH engineer being paid by the promoter to mix all bands, he's only gonna take a certain amount of direction from any band... and after that it's "yeah sure, you bet," while he goes on doing whatever he wants and thinks sounds best.
What's baffling to me is you people seem to think soundmen are just hobos picked up off the street and paid a dime to run a soundboard. Their job is to make things sound good. That's what they are trained to do, that is what they went to school for (the ones who shelled out the money to attend technical schools, that is.) Soundmen are, for the most part, musicians themselves, and to assume they're so dense as to not represent the bass accurately just shows how inept you are. Their job is to represent everyone onstage accurately enough to enhance the performance and make the concert more enjoyable for all attending.
Personally, I would sacrifice my ego and tone if it would make the mix sound better, because it's the music as a whole that's important, not my fears of insecurity and need to reaffirm my self-esteem by showing off my oh-so-precious tone. If the soundman butchers your tone, it's because it was throwing off the mix and deteriorating the sound of the entire performance. That's it; you can't blame someone for doing their job and making the whole greater than the sum of its (sometimes egotistical) parts. If you can't come to terms with that, you shouldn't be working with other people and should just stay at home listening to yourself riff.
Personally, I would sacrifice my ego and tone if it would make the mix sound better, because it's the music as a whole that's important, not my fears of insecurity and need to reaffirm my self-esteem by showing off my oh-so-precious tone. If the soundman butchers your tone, it's because it was throwing off the mix and deteriorating the sound of the entire performance. That's it; you can't blame someone for doing their job and making the whole greater than the sum of its (sometimes egotistical) parts. If you can't come to terms with that, you shouldn't be working with other people and should just stay at home listening to yourself riff.
... um, no s***, Sherlock? What do you expect him to do? Do whatever you think sounds best? You're on the stage, not in the audience! It's his job to make it sound good for the audience! What's so incomprehensibly hard to understand about that?
You people need to get out more...
I don't have a problem with a lot of mics on stage for bigger stages or even just friendly ones, but some places I run sound
are just nasty. there's one spot that's got the stage surrounded by windows, hard floor, low ceiling, and a big hallow stage. also my point still stands about a DI being fine as long as the essence of the tone is not compromised.
I do much prefer a Post DI right from an amp head as it gives me the player's tone and the only tweaking I have to do is to compensate for the room.
Hey buddy, you're the only one in here with a bad attitude. Everyone else is trying to have a conversation on opinions of DI/Mic. That's all these forums are.... Opinions. You can't chastise someone for wanting to share theirs. You are out of line, and your behavior is simply uncalled for. Perhaps it makes you feel like a big person to talk down to people here on TB, but that is pretty sad if that is the case.
If you don't have anything nice to say, just don't say it.
I love the sound of my amp but I realized i wont be able to use my amp/cab setup all of the time so i built my pedal board with di so i could get the same sound wherever i traveled to,,, Just works for me and I could go without an amp if needs be.
As for multiple acts I would have thought that most places would have digital mixers now and have each bands settings stored?
As for multiple acts I would have thought that most places would have digital mixers now and have each bands settings stored?
+ 10
and to discuss the OP's original topic, I can see where it would depend heavily on where you are playing at in regards to the experience of the sound guy. Some places in Houston are just run by the guy who owns the club, who has not pursued any type of training in live sound. The other problem I run into is the opinionated sound guy who mixes things too much towards his taste in music, having lead guitar sooo loud that people's ears are bleeding. I tend to lean towards the cab miking side because if I can't get a good mix throughout the house, at least it will sound good up close to the stage.
Muaguana, simmer down. U are entitled to your opinion dude but don't condescend. The soundmen are probably just lots better where u live cause if I had a few dollars for every time a soundman made my funk drummers kick drum sound like a Metallica Lars howitzer machine gun battle cannon...well I'd at least have a couple hundred $$. I'd get an extra couple hundred for every time my 70's jazz was made to sound like the bass player from Tool's bass. Nothing against those guys, but my experiences are lined with soundmen who don't have the slightest clue how to mix the funk, old school soul, R&B, etc. Not all soundmen are schooled in a multitude of musical styles and the proper tones associated with each. When I hear a kick drum that sounds like a basketball bouncing, I usually get all giddy and hand the dude an xtra $20. Regarding the 1000 watt Carvin...my best advice is to politely tell the rest of the band to turn WAY down. If u can't hear yourself with 1000 watts....wow...stage volume must be way, way, way too loud. A mix is a relative balance of musical elements. The louder u all are while trying to achieve a proper mix or 'balance', the worse u will sound out front to the audience. Chime in on that soundmen!!
I prefer DI simply because there isn't a whole lot going on tone wise once my signal leaves my tubepac. I run no eq and my cabs are pretty transparent so the DI route is usually simpler for me and the sound tech. I've only been mic'ed once because the FOH guy could understand why he was getting buzz from me using a TRS from my unbalanced out, anyways when I went out into the audience while the other bassist did sound check and it sounded just fine.
I don't think i've ever had a tech require me to hook up a certain way. My biggest gripe with sound men is their friggin awful sounding monitors. I've yet to play with "professional" sound reinforcement where the monitors didn't sound like a hot fart in a box. That and getting them to understand that I'm using my rig for my monitor so bring the bass in my monitor mix way down. Very little frustrates me like having my power amp maxed out and still getting blasted with bass from my monitor mix.
I don't think i've ever had a tech require me to hook up a certain way. My biggest gripe with sound men is their friggin awful sounding monitors. I've yet to play with "professional" sound reinforcement where the monitors didn't sound like a hot fart in a box. That and getting them to understand that I'm using my rig for my monitor so bring the bass in my monitor mix way down. Very little frustrates me like having my power amp maxed out and still getting blasted with bass from my monitor mix.
+1
Some people take things too seriously.
As a bass player and a sound guy (who went to school btw [which doesn't mean much]) I can see the benefits of both side. I never know if I am going to have a monitor when we play, so I have my pedal board set up so that I run everything to a DI, and then to my Headphone amp, then to FOH. I use in ear monitors so that, hopefully, I will still be able to hear when I am 50. Anyway, so the DI works for me. But it does scare me, and I have considered using a mic. However, that requires money, and I am on a spending hold right now. I'm with Jimmy though. If you like how it sounds coming out of your cabinet, then whey give them anything else?
Play through a real PA. What you are trying to do sounds like a cluster**** to me. If you need more volume outside then your band needs to rent a decent PA.
Somebody thinks highly of themself.
Here is a reason for using less microphones on stage. Invalid Link Removed Scroll down until you get to the part about Potential acoustic gain. In short the less microphones being used the louder the PA can be before feedback. A DI does not cause this problem. If you have the time read the whole article and you can learn alot. I did.My PA is plenty loud. I wouldn't classify a Yamaha EMX 512sc as "Not a real PA". It's the bass rig that I'd like to be a little louder. ( I could have swore I said that) FWIW, I COULD hear myself. My band is not THAT loud. It was right on the edge though and I had it full up ( again, I refer to my bass rig, NOT the PA). Since I can't currently afford a bigger rig, I thought maybe going out of the SansAmp to the PA would be a possibility.
No need to be condescending, arrogant and insulting friend. We can't all be super cool guys with "Real" PAs.
i find it really ironic and funny you accuse me of thinking too highly of myselfSomebody thinks highly of themself.
anyway, i read the whole article, i did. good one with a lot of great info. now let's assume that i play gigs where the pa is being challenged...it rarely happens, but let's assume that it is...answer me this...
on my band's stage, there are 5 vocal mics, a sax mic, a guitar amp mic, anywhere from 2 to 7 drum mics, and a bass amp mic. what possible positive benefit could come from pulling my mic and giving me a di when there are so many other live mics onstage? pulling my amp mic is a drop in the bucket, yet you make it sound like the bass mic is solely responsible for screwing the pooch. come on, let's be realistic here...an extra mic on the bass means nothing at all to the overall picture.
