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line out vs mic

#61
line out vs mic
I'm always weary of guys using their line outs cause more often than not phantom power is turned on on most channels weather its needed or not,
You can also tell JimmyM is a pro through n trough he brings his mic, DI, I bet a stand for the mic and I bet more often than not has everything ready to roll before the soundguy even talks to him :D
 
#62
As someone who mixes sound live AND plays in bands, I actually prefer to run as much direct as possible...including those gigs where I'm playing guitar.

Cabinets FOR ME, anyway, are not necessary (and since I live in NYC, where having a car is a hassle, completely pointless, especially when most clubs already have backline, or at least cabs).

Of course, your mileage may vary. But I think direct options, like better DIs, Sansamps, PODs, Axe-FX units, etc., have improved, technologically, by leaps and bounds, to the point where amps are no longer an necessity. Just my 2 cents.
 
#63
reniwren said:
line out vs mic
I'm always weary of guys using their line outs cause more often than not phantom power is turned on on most channels weather its needed or not,
You can also tell JimmyM is a pro through n trough he brings his mic, DI, I bet a stand for the mic and I bet more often than not has everything ready to roll before the soundguy even talks to him :D
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oh, you're only saying that because it's true ;)

i do try to be a pro and have my ducks in a row, yes, so thanks for that. i don't bring a bass amp mic on fly dates, though, so i am a bit at the mercy of whatever the sound company has and i'm way more flexible in those situations, although having a vt pedal makes that possible. but on gigs where i bring my own amp, i always bring my own mic and stand. i don't bring a di anymore, though. i've been hoodwinked by too many soundman who say they're going to blend me and then turn off the mic. so i don't even give them the option anymore.
 
#64
JimmyM said:
oh, you're only saying that because it's true ;)

i do try to be a pro and have my ducks in a row, yes, so thanks for that. i don't bring a bass amp mic on fly dates, though, so i am a bit at the mercy of whatever the sound company has and i'm way more flexible in those situations, although having a vt pedal makes that possible. but on gigs where i bring my own amp, i always bring my own mic and stand. i don't bring a di anymore, though. i've been hoodwinked by too many soundman who say they're going to blend me and then turn off the mic. so i don't even give them the option anymore.
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Maybe that should tell you something.:eyebrow:
 
#65
I'm not saying this is true of all sound guys, but I'm sure a good chunk of them would rather be PLAYING the music than mixing it for someone else. It's their job and how they supplement their income so that they can eat and pay rent/mortgage just like all of us here. I think Jimmy does have a point on sound guys taking the easiest route possible ("so let's not sit here and pretend that many soundmen don't micromanage bands to make their job easier"), even if it's sacrificing the integrity of the music, they wanna get through the work day.

The sound engineer's job is to get everything up and running to the band's satisfaction, because what the band is trying to do is play their music the way they wrote and recorded it as close as possible live to give an accurate reproduction for the crowd to hear. I couldn't count on my hands, feet, and hairs how many shows I've been to where going to two different clubs (same size and equipment grade) with the same band sounding TOTALLY different. I'm sure that sound guys deal with some REAL crap from certain bands and get fed up, but that doesn't mean you give everyone the least effort possible because you run into a bad band every now and then.
 
#66
modulusman said:
Maybe that should tell you something.:eyebrow:
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yes, it tells me some soundmen are phony a-holes. at least you're not a phony about being one, i will give you that.

exactly what are you trying to say, smartass? that you think my sound sucks? good to know you are such an expert on things you know dick about. ever hear me play? what's that? the answer is no? then shut up.

btw, i hate modulus basses.
 
#67
JimmyM said:
yes, it tells me some soundmen are phony a-holes. at least you're not a phony about being one, i will give you that.

exactly what are you trying to say, smartass? that you think my sound sucks? good to know you are such an expert on things you know dick about. ever hear me play? what's that? the answer is no? then shut up.

btw, i hate modulus basses.
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Just find it odd that they would go to all the trouble to hook up a mic and not use it. :confused: something must be going on. By the way i hate ampig bass amps. :D
 
#69
faulknersj said:
Am I the only one here on this thread who works with professionals ?

What does that mean? Please eloborate on your experience with professionals.
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I'm not sure if you know this, but Jimmy has a pretty high profile gig.

Well, maybe not as high profile as Geddy Lee or some others but there's a good chance you've heard of who he plays for.
 
#70
A few comments:

--I use my amp's line out to feed the board but I insist on going post EQ so I can get the specific sound I want in the mains. This is kind of a half way point between micing the cab and using a flat DI.

--The sound I want comes from 25 years of gigging experience both as a bass player and running live sound and also a lot of knowledge of acoustic science. My bass sound is carefully crafted to fit in with the other instruments and work well in the mains with a bare minimum of tweaking.

--Nearly every soundman I've ever worked with has no problem with accommodating me and the only time I've ever had complaints about the bass sound was when the soundman was a moron who didn't know what he was doing. In this business, dumb soundmen are more common than I'd like.

--I do understand why some soundmen want to get a clean, flat signal from the bass - it's less work and less thought for them if they just assume that every bass player is an idiot who would give them an unusable signal if allowed to use a mic or to touch an onboard EQ. Too bad. I have my own particular bass sound for a very good reason (it helps make my entire band sound good) and I don't need to have someone less knowledgeable than me changing it because it makes his job easier.
 
#74
Hey Jimmy, I hear ya loud and clear on that big dumb modern rock sound that seems so pervasive in all venues today.

I DESPISE that sound with a purple passion: it's all about putting the kick drum way out in front of everything else.

It's for the dumb as far as I'm concerned - a real reflection on where we are as a society today. I've got no problem with modern rock, other than the fact that I despise almost all of it LOL. The problem I have is when that sound becomes "the sound" and is applied to every situation.
 
#75
i call it the "i paid a lot for these subs and i'm gonna use 'em" syndrome. in the right context it sounds very cool. not in an oldies context, though. and even in the right context, soundmen would be better served by toning it down a notch or 7.
 
#76
JimmyM said:
i call it the "i paid a lot for these subs and i'm gonna use 'em" syndrome. in the right context it sounds very cool. not in an oldies context, though. and even in the right context, soundmen would be better served by toning it down a notch or 7.
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Exactly.

Subs are overrated. In my small local cover band, we don't use them at all. We play small outdoor gigs and it hasn't been a deficit for us at all.

In fact, I think it's a benefit: a more authentic sound.

It forces the drummer to get a good natural tone from the kick.
 
#77
wade_b said:
Exactly.

Subs are overrated. In my small local cover band, we don't use them at all. We play small outdoor gigs and it hasn't been a deficit for us at all.

In fact, I think it's a benefit: a more authentic sound.

It forces the drummer to get a good natural tone from the kick.
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Hey Wade hows it hanging. The kick drum gets completely lost in the mix 50 ft from stage IME.
 
#78
faulknersj said:
What does that mean? Please eloborate on your experience with professionals
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I give the soundmans I work with whatever signal they want to work with , Mike or DI. They do the sound , I don't. They are professionals.
If they want to mike my gig bag or my volume pedal , I don't give a **** , as long as it sounds good in front.
What is important in that buizness is the listener , the ego of the atrist is a Very very far third. ( after the public and the one who signs the artist's check)
They are professionals , they mix the FOH/monitors/Mobile , I'm a professional , I play the bass. I won't start telling them what to do.
And if I don't like a soundman's job , then I'll hire one I know is gonna do a better job.


Maybe I'm lucky to work with competent people......
 
#79
hey, i'm a professional too and soundmen don't have any qualms at all about telling me how to do my job if they don't like what i'm doing. so if i don't like what they're doing, neither do i.
 
#80
I'm glad you get to work with great soundmen. That's awesome man! What city are u in? What kind of music? I play a couple hundred gigs a year and have had a wide variety of experiences, but we keep our sound in house as much as possible. I'm taking Jimmy's advice and micing my cab from now on. I have had the good fortune to work with platinum selling producers and they all swear by cab micing. Jimmy is a hell of a resource and I respect his experience and advice. I'm glad u have figured out exactly what works for you man, but for me, that journey is not quite complete.
 

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