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Lined fretless: Make me feel better please!
- Thread starter Fletz
- Start date
I don't really care, personally. Most cats who have had an issue with me playing lined fretlesses were unwilling to pay me to play unlined, so I just let that one be. I play rock. We play loud. Sometimes I don't hear what I am playing as well, so a visual reference point is very important to me. YMMV. Enjoy your new bass!
it's so funny that this subject gets so many emotional responses - I think I know why that is - we bass players need all the love we can get
I've played almost only FL since 1971 - 43 years/35 yrs pro - most of those without lines
when I think back about intonation problems it seems, while I was playing many many nights doing funk, R&B and light jazz the unlined worked (coulda played some of that while sleeping after a while)
getting into more sophisticated stuff where I was always learning and keeping up, I definitely appreciated the lines
lines are a relatively recent thing - my first bass was a FL Univox Gibson wannabe, no lines, no side dots either - just the dots on the face of the board exactly where they would be on a fretted board - total mind f%^k
we used to laugh because Fender charged more for a fretless than fretted when in actuality they just pulled the neck before the fret slots were cut, hehe easy money
I don't think I had a lined FL until the late 80s or early 90s - maybe it was the Tobias Model T? not sure
then I had an F Bass neck-thru 6 string with the 'edge' marks & a Ken Bebensee likewise and they help
for me it's purely a practical matter - I couldn't care less what YOU play - but, please don't pretend that it makes you a better player, it's just not so (see great player references above)
I have and love some awesome (and that's no hyperbole) FL basses but I don't have them to gaze at, they're for playing
I've played almost only FL since 1971 - 43 years/35 yrs pro - most of those without lines
when I think back about intonation problems it seems, while I was playing many many nights doing funk, R&B and light jazz the unlined worked (coulda played some of that while sleeping after a while)
getting into more sophisticated stuff where I was always learning and keeping up, I definitely appreciated the lines
lines are a relatively recent thing - my first bass was a FL Univox Gibson wannabe, no lines, no side dots either - just the dots on the face of the board exactly where they would be on a fretted board - total mind f%^k
we used to laugh because Fender charged more for a fretless than fretted when in actuality they just pulled the neck before the fret slots were cut, hehe easy money
I don't think I had a lined FL until the late 80s or early 90s - maybe it was the Tobias Model T? not sure
then I had an F Bass neck-thru 6 string with the 'edge' marks & a Ken Bebensee likewise and they help
for me it's purely a practical matter - I couldn't care less what YOU play - but, please don't pretend that it makes you a better player, it's just not so (see great player references above)
I have and love some awesome (and that's no hyperbole) FL basses but I don't have them to gaze at, they're for playing
I gave examples of why children (or anyone) can play violin family instruments without visual reference and why those concepts don't apply to the bass guitar in the same way.
I never had problems with pitch when I picked the violin back up after a 20+ year layoff. My problem was keeping that cheap POS bow from bouncing.
No it's not. It's all about the LOOKS! It's SHOW business. To the OP I can only say: You low incompetent worm! Does Itzhak Pearlman have lines on his Strad? Did Stradivarius many ANY instruments with lines? No. Put on your stupid lined bass and stand in front of a mirror and hang your worthless head! Lines! You are nothing but a poser!
But seriously, I'm where you are and there is only one question that counts" DO YOU LOVE THAT BASS?
Sure, I prefer the look of an unlined bass, but the guy who owned my USA G&L L2500 bought it with a lined neck. So now it's mine it still has a lined neck. Am I ever going to flip that amazing keeper just for some minor tweak on looks? SAY IT AIN'T SO!
I'm sure you noticed that when you are standing up all you see are the ends of lines anyway. So much for "training wheels".
Mark Egan has said fretless bass is hard enough so why make it harder?
I personally like the unlined look better but I own both a lined and unlined.
I personally like the unlined look better but I own both a lined and unlined.
Does your bass have a heel? I know mine does. Does your bass have side dots? I know mine does , however they don't correspond with any fret position on my fretless. What's your point? Because you don't know anyone who plays with a blindfold?? There are countless fretless players who play unlined basses who happen to have great intonation....how do you think they accomplish this? Playing in position and good technique is what my point is ...if you are sloppy with your technique on fretted and have bad habits, then chances are your intonation will suffer whether or not you have lines on your bass....or a blindfold.
How much of a bowed instrument neck is completely exposed? Once you leave the first position on an electric bass guitar, the neck is wide upen up to the heel of the neck joint, wheverever that may be and varies. I am an unlined fretless player, but I wouldn't be able to orient myself and accurately hit a note without taking a side dot glance before striking the note. Sure, everyone will inevitably claim they could hit the A# 5 times without looking while removing their hand after each note.
True if it sounds good , however Jaco didn't necessarily USE lines , he had them because he converted his Jazz Bass of Doom to fretless. He also had an old stand up bass that was unlined. I imagine he used them for reference because they were there but I'm sure the player that he was , an unlined Bass wouldn't present an problem for him.
You seem to be completely ignoring the fact that those instruments have tactile reference points that a fretless bass does not have.
I started out playing fretless unlined. I later acquired lined fretless basses. I found that chording and upper register playing is much easier to do in tune with lines. I still prefer my unlined but only because it's my favorite bass. I actually wish I had some marks or lines in the upper register of the bass.
Jaco would scream at the lighting guy if he couldn't see the lines. He most definitely used them. He could have bought a bass with an unlined board. He didn't. Lines are not a crutch. Unlike the upright, we don't have the benefit of physical positions or years with the bow. No shame in that game if you play more in tune. Edgar Meyer has dots on his Gabrielli upright's fingerboard, and most certainly uses them, too. Play in tune, by any means necessary.
How much of the fingerboard overlaps the body of a bowed instrument? Quite a bit. Once I pass 5th position on violin I am playing in that territory and there is no reference. I have to rely on position ,same as I would on my fretless. I have studied with one of the most well known fretless bass players and I can pretty much guarantee his intonation is spot on. If you're reliant on lines that's fine, you don't need to debate the fact that some players can do what you haven't achieved.
I think MAYBE you should thoroughly read a post before you respond to it. I NEVER made a statement that someone shouldn't use lines...my statement was that I don't , that's my preference...if that offends you...whatever. If YOU can't play in tune without them, it doesn't mean others can't. You're right that there is no shame in using lines and I NEVER STATED there was....because I said it reminded me of tape on my violin is one reason I don't. It wasn't a dig against those who do.You sound little insecure about it since you are trying to put words in my mouth. I never said lines were a crutch or training wheels.And it doesn't matter what Jaco had or why "you believe " he was reliant on lines because you my friend are not Jaco. Someone said it earlier and I'll say it now, some of you "lined" guys seem to wanna argue the point with guys who state they don't use them. I could care less if you, or anyone else here plays a lined neck...I don't and my intonation doesn't suck.
What haven't I acheived? I am an unlined player.
As for the uncharted territory of the violin, there's not much of the neck where you can't rely on the headstock or body joint for muscle memory. As I keep stating, an electric bass guitar neck is an entirely different beast. Without checking a side dot, my left hand doesn't feel a difference between the 5th position and 6th position. You can rely on muscle memory when staying in position, but it's the fun music that often makes you have to move around the neck, even on a 6 string bass.
Here we go..... I happen to play Bass by the way , I think I clearly know the difference. AND ironically enough YES I use side dots...and as I keep stating, I never said that you shouldn't use them and it's obvious you need them covering a scale of 34 or more inches. My statement is once you are there AT the position you're technical ability of playing in position , muscle memory and your ear keep your intonation in check when not using lines. The discussion is about lines on the fingerboard not side position markers which again DO NOT correspond to the note on a fret.
BY THE WAY , violinists stay in tune by playing in position, thats what the tape is for. You use the heel for referencing 5th position . 2nd , 3rd and 4th position have no reference but hand placement, doesn't matter that the proximity is shorter. Hand placement , muscle memory and positions are what gives you intonation. Just because the fingerboard is a fraction of the size as an "electric" bass doesn't mean that you can't play out of tune OR that it is any easier of an instrument to play.
Yes-----sand down the finger board until the grooves are gone--- then the action is more like an upright-
Nice thump but you gotta really be sure not to play sharp-- no lines to help you.
Jaco played lined fretless the same reason he didn't play a 6 string bass. That's what was available. Guys seem too busy comparing themselves to Jaco based on taking one's gear a little too personally. 99.99999% of it boils down to what's available and what you learn on. I play unlined and am not ashamed of myself or wishing that other famous people were lined bassists.
