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Lined fretless: Make me feel better please!

#81
This is exactly why: "I have NO lines on my DBs. But, I would NOT play an electric bass without them (my fretless electrics ARE lined)."

It's difficult enough to play in tune on a DB!

ole Jason said:
A lot of people tend to compare upright bass to electric bass in regards to having lines. The upright bass is fretless and doesn't have lines so does it stand to reason an electric bass also shouldn't have lines? NOPE! Here's why:

1) The upright bass is built with 'anchor points' in mind. Half and first positions are easy enough. With your index finger anchored on first position A on the G string your pinky will naturally fall on B. Shift up so your index is on C and you're naturally spanning C to D. On basses with a D neck the D on the G string will naturally occur at the point where the neck meets the body. It is very very natural to shift to the D by 'feel.' The electric bass has no such system. It is just a long plank of wood. There are no tactile reference points on an electric bass.

2) Plenty of people use markings, dots, etc. on upright bass. "Probably just kids or people learning!" you say? Nope!

See the pencil mark around the high D? This is one of the best bassists in the world.
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#83
To me the biggest advantage of an unlined fingerboard is that it looks better and not everyone agrees with that obviously! There is no other reason to turn your nose up at a bass that has lines because if you don't need them then you don't have to look at them. You can also Sharpie them out as someone suggested above. My personal fretless has lines even though I would rather that it didn't, aesthetically. It's no big deal, I could certainly do something about them if I wanted to, I just don't care enough to make the effort. I'm even thinking about doing some upgrades to that bass and covering up the lines isn't on the list of things I plan to do. Beginning string players will often put two or three narrow tape lines on their cello's etc, to help them learn where their fingers go. I was at a folk concert last week that employed a dizzying array of instruments, some home made, and among them was a double bass. With tape lines on the fingerboard. I doubt I was the only one in the audience to notice those tape lines and chuckle a little but I am certain that if I had been upset that a professional musician would use them in a public concert I would have been the only one. It simply doesn't matter. The only time it matters is when, as noted above, you are working for someone who either hates fretless basses or who demands fretless basses. In that case a fretless bass that looks like it has frets could be either your salvation or your pink slip. It did not matter in this case but I too have seen seasoned professional musicians fooled into thinking a lined fretless bass was fretted.
 
#84
Bryan R. Tyler said:
The lines let you put your hands in the proper intonation point before you play a note. You can't do that by ear alone.
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Think of all the poor violinists, cellists, and other string players that have suffered without dots and fretlines all these years. They found their intonated notes, regardless.

The funny idea of needing a map to find a dog's butt reminds me of the need for fretlines to find the note on a non-fretted instrument. Again, I have lined and unlined basses. The lines don't help me. If they help anyone else, that's great. I say use the tool that you think you need. Who cares what anyone else says if it serves you well?
 
#85
Fletz said:
I have in my lifetime owned two tony Franklin fretlesses and loved them both ... Before GAS forced me to sell them. I got the fretless jones again and saw a bass deal here on TalkBass that I couldn't beat on a Music Man Stingray fretless. I did research and decided that the Pino fretless sound is what I want for my current situation, the color was beautiful on the one I saw here and the age/condition/price were excellent. So I bought it. I'll have it in a few days but I'm already feeling like I wimped out by getting this LINED fretless. My franklins of course we're unlined. I played them just fine.

Talk me off the ledge! Tell me it doesn't matter. Tell me I'm being too harsh on myself and that tone and playability far outweigh the ego of no lines.

Or call me out. I can take it. :)
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Hey, I played upright bass for years in school...took up electric bass later. I have a lined fretless and I appreciate the lines! If a guy who has a few hundred hours on upright can appreciate a lined fretless, so can you.

Even more important - it's your bass, and you are the bass player. You are in charge of the bass..to take charge and don't worry about this!
 
#89
staccatogrowl said:
Think of all the poor violinists, cellists, and other string players that have suffered without dots and fretlines all these years. They found their intonated notes, regardless.

The funny idea of needing a map to find a dog's butt reminds me of the need for fretlines to find the note on a non-fretted instrument. Again, I have lined and unlined basses. The lines don't help me. If they help anyone else, that's great. I say use the tool that you think you need. Who cares what anyone else says if it serves you well?
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An electric bass != violin, cello, upright, etc. See my previous post for why the comparison is fallacious.
 
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#90
Thanks ole Jason for bringing this to light. I (and some others I suspect) appreciate the education.
I like the look of unlined but my fretless is lined. It's just easier. I don't need my hobby to be more difficult than it already is.
I agree with TMARK, lines help when you can't hear everything clearly.
 
#91
Interesting that the unlined fretless players who slag other fretless players who use lines never say anything disparaging about fretted players. Somehow, in their mind, using frets is okay, but using lines is not.
If the job is getting done musically, who in the world could possibly care whether or not you use lines? Whatever gets you through the gig is cool with me. Write the names of the notes on there if you want to!

None of my fretless basses have lines and my intonation is fine. If I lost my side dots, though, I'd be in very, very big trouble! I agree with the others here that on loud stages it's good to have some sort of visual reference.

When I started playing fretless, I found that lines confused me more than they helped me - I tended to play just behind them as if they were frets - so I sold my lined fretless and never looked back. What I didn't do, however, was give it much of time to get used to it. That was almost 30 years ago now and I have no idea whether lines would bother me or not at this point. I'm a much more experienced musician now than I was then. Other people using lines? That doesn't bother me a bit. What sort of argument could I possibly make against it? "Hey, you're playing too in tune!" ;)
 
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#95
Lo-E said:
Interesting that the unlined fretless players who slag other fretless players who use lines never say anything disparaging about fretted players. Somehow, in their mind, using frets is okay, but using lines is not.
If the job is getting done musically, who in the world could possibly care whether or not you use lines? Whatever gets you through the gig is cool with me. Write the names of the notes on there if you want to!

None of my fretless basses have lines and my intonation is fine. If I lost my side dots, though, I'd be in very, very big trouble! I agree with the others here that on loud stages it's good to have some sort of visual reference.

When I started playing fretless, I found that lines confused me more than they helped me - I tended to play just behind them as if they were frets - so I sold my lined fretless and never looked back. What I didn't do, however, was give it much of time to get used to it. That was almost 30 years ago now and I have no idea whether lines would bother me or not at this point. I'm a much more experienced musician now than I was then. Other people using lines? That doesn't bother me a bit. What sort of argument could I possibly make against it? "Hey, you're playing too in tune!" ;)
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I want to get a custom fretless built that has LED LINES.:laugh:

I would likely be disowned by most of TB's fretless players.;)
 
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#96
Baird6869 said:
I want to get a custom fretless built that has LED LINES.:laugh:

I would likely be disowned by most of TB's fretless players.;)
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We don't own you, now. :)

Luminlay-Fret-Lines-620x290.jpg
 
#98
just my opinion, but lines are bad. They mess me up. Playing fretless well DOES take work. Time. Effort. It isn't easy because it isn't supposed to be easy... so you play well, you don't need lines - period.

That said, if you like everything about this bass except the lines, just learn to ignore them. I don't know if I could do that, but it seems like the best approach.
 
#100
Fletz said:
I have in my lifetime owned two tony Franklin fretlesses and loved them both ... Before GAS forced me to sell them. I got the fretless jones again and saw a bass deal here on TalkBass that I couldn't beat on a Music Man Stingray fretless. I did research and decided that the Pino fretless sound is what I want for my current situation, the color was beautiful on the one I saw here and the age/condition/price were excellent. So I bought it. I'll have it in a few days but I'm already feeling like I wimped out by getting this LINED fretless. My franklins of course we're unlined. I played them just fine.

Talk me off the ledge! Tell me it doesn't matter. Tell me I'm being too harsh on myself and that tone and playability far outweigh the ego of no lines.

Or call me out. I can take it. :)
Click to expand...

Jaco played a lined fretless.

The End.
 

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