Lined Fretless question

[Ryan L.]

This is the strangest lined/unlined thread I've seen in a long time- it's like the bizarro version of how they usually go

I agree.

 

[haloonpc]

yeah ive jammed on a frettless before... every once in a while i look down and find im hitting the lines pretty well... but still i like the there just for reference every once in a while

 

[Ryan L.]

I prefer the look of unlined fretboards, myself. I had a CIJ Fender Jazz fretless for quite awhile that was unlined, and found that I didn't have much of a problem playing in tune.

The fretless I have on the way, however, is lined. I would have preferred another unlined one, but since I was on a tight budget (for a fretless), I had to take what I could find. I couldn't justify spending too much money on a bass that isn't going to see much use outside the house, at least for now.

 

[jzucker]

Jaco was cheap,

Maybe before he was famous but Paul Reed Smith told me he took a bass to Jaco during his weather report days and offered to make him a totally custom instrument and I know many other luthiers did too.

Jaco played that bass because he loved it. But I'm not sure how it has anything to do with this thread. Anyway, point is that if you can play in tune without lines, do it. I just don't understand the anti-lines sentiment.

By the way, nobody's told me a convincing reason why lines are bad and yet I read so many threads with people saying they hate them. Puzzling...

 

[Ryan L.]

I don't hate lines, I just happen to prefer the look of unlined.

Purely cosmetic, for me.

 

[jzucker]

I don't hate lines, I just happen to prefer the look of unlined.

Purely cosmetic, for me.

I agree it looks better as does not having inlays but when I'm soloing in the upper register, I like having the inlays and the lines definitely help playing fast bop tunes in tune.

 

[buddyro57]

I can understand liking the way that an unlined board looks. And there are many unlined guys who play in tune - I think of Jimmy (Flem) Johnson among others. I- however do have to have the lines and readily admit that I have come to rely on them too much. This is very bad for reading- so don't get hooked on having to look at the neck. Fortunatley this doesn't happen to me on the upright- maybe it would if the upright had lines (!).
Jon

 

[Kael]

so does every jazz musician whos played a double bass...

I don't get your point.

Flawed analogy. Completely differing instruments. Ability to intonate on one has nothing to do with ability to intonate on the other.

The fender lines I do believe are plastic. I'd imagine that you should probably concentrate on stains that apply to plastics instead of wood. You could always just apply whatever color looked best regardless of whether it will resist wear then epoxy the fingerboard. Of course, that'll change the tone. If you epoxied the fingerboard you could always just remove the lines physically then slather up the epoxy to smooth it out.

PS: It might be effective to remove the plastic lines, stain them, then reinsert. Then again, it might not.

 

[lpdeluxe]

Yes, it has wandered far afield from the original question, which I still would like answered: given that one has a lined fretless, how does one turn it somehow into an unlined fretless?

I am as guilty of subverting this thread as anyone, so let's get back to the issue at hand.

How do you get rid of the lines?

I am satisfied that what I **really** want is a Precision with an unlined board, but I've been wrong before....The unlined fingerboard, to me, bespeaks less of a hermaphrodite instrument, I guess. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is, so to speak, so where's the problem? And, the worst case scenario in my proposed altering of a P is that I won't like it, which leaves me the option of changing back to a standard, fretted bass.

So far, I have contacted Carvin about having them replacing the ebony fingerboard on my LB20 with a fretless (if you want to know, they told me that they don't do that sort of work), traded for the fretless J I mentioned, and priced a Warmoth unlined maple/maple board for my hypothetical P (I actually have a P on order, from MF, but their current chaotic warehouse situation is delaying fulfillment): it's something I'm quite interested in, in other words.

And, I have to correct what I said earlier: it appears that both P and J fretless basses were offered beginning in 1970. there being photographic evidence of each of the beasts involved. A friend had a nice ash-bodied (finished in natural) 1970 P with an unlined rosewood board, but I have seen photos of unlined maple boards as well.

So, how DO you eliminate the lines? Dye? paint? Fervent prayer?

 

[bucephylus]

Jaco considered the lines "essential;" his words.

Comparing intonation on EBG to upright is non-sequitor.

Most players who prefer no-lines do so for looks. That is a personal thing. There is no one in the audience who is going to be evaluating your playing based on whether there are lines or not. Personally, I used a Warmoth no-lines neck for many years and then a Fender neck with lines for many years. IME, the lines help, enough so they are worth it. The crowd won't notice your lines/no-lines. They will notice your intonation. Maybe some consider them "cheating." So what? (to quote Miles).

To the OP: Warmoth is a not real high cost option. My birds-eye/ebony/no lines neck is still sitting in the corner, if you want to PM me. I have no attachment to it.

 

[bucephylus]

So, how DO you eliminate the lines? Dye? paint? Fervent prayer?

You basically have two choices - an opaque epoxy job (probably ugly); or take your bass to a luthier who can saw the plastic fill out and fill it with a dark wood filler to match the board. That is actually what Jaco did. His lines were quite non-obvious; just enough for his reference. That gives the visual impact of a "blank plank" but leaves the reference for the player.

I will simply repeat that Edgar Meyer, one of the greatest living URB soloists
Invalid Link Removed
has reference markers inlaid into the fingerboard of his 17th century Gabrielli (OK, maybe its 18th century, I forget). They are large, and quite visible to the audience, who don't seem to pay them much heed. Go figure.

Edgar is very clear about using any methods available to address the challenges on the instrument. His point is the output is the objective. Even though I prefer German bow, I agree with this viewpoint, and how it is similarly appropriate to the EBG.

Other opinions are also cool. We are all in this together.

 

[RunngDog]

And, I have to correct what I said earlier: it appears that both P and J fretless basses were offered beginning in 1970.

I don't think so. I believe Fender didn't release a fretless J until at least the 80's, and Fender Japan offered one before Fender USA.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Maybe before he was famous but Paul Reed Smith told me he took a bass to Jaco during his weather report days and offered to make him a totally custom instrument and I know many other luthiers did too.

Jaco played that bass because he loved it. But I'm not sure how it has anything to do with this thread. Anyway, point is that if you can play in tune without lines, do it. I just don't understand the anti-lines sentiment.

By the way, nobody's told me a convincing reason why lines are bad and yet I read so many threads with people saying they hate them. Puzzling...

Post #5

 

[Brad Johnson]

huh?

A little joke based on these:

Yeah but if you already have lines, it's just sillyness to remove them. What's the point? Plus, lines allow a mediocre player to play relatively in tune. A great player will be in tune on either of them but I can't count the number of gigs I've played with mediocre fretless players who played unlined basses and were out of tune the whole night...

I still for the life of me don't understand the "no lines" thing unless it's just the cosmetics you object to. My complaint is very specific and based on gusy I've played with who don't have lines and can't play in tune. Sure, the player is the most important thing but all other things being equal, the guy with lines is more likely to be in tune.

Frankly, most fretless players I've played with should stick to fretted bass.

This was a "How to" thread, not "Should I...?".

I agree, Bryan.

 

[Munjibunga]

How do you get rid of the lines?


So, how DO you eliminate the lines? Dye? paint? Fervent prayer?

Why would you want to?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Did you read it?
He usually goes by the sides.

 

[Munjibunga]

Did you read it?
He usually goes by the sides.

So? Why would that necessitate removing the lines?

 

[kipsus]

I don't think the lines are necessary if there are dots on the side of the bass because with dots it's really easy to estimate where the lines would be and then adjust from there by ear. And playing unlined with no dots or other markers is a real challenge especially when shifting.

I guess some sort of reference is necessary. Jaco himself said that for upright players it's easier because the neck is in a relatively fixed vertical position, not so with a BG.

 

[alangoldstein]

i would like to say there is nothing wrong with lines.
or without!

here is why

some stages are so dark... its hard to see where u would play especially if your bass company didnt put the side dots RIGHT ON where the fretline position would be.

i would say this, if my fretless has lines on the side when im holding the bass ( not just dots on the 3, 5, 7, 9 12 etc )
and when on stage looking down at the neck, i can see them? thats all i would need.

but on my gwb1 willis bass , the lines go all the way across the fretboard... so thats why i have lines cuz it comes with them.

its all personal preference guys, its not up for argument really.

one thing to see? look at the fbass.com alain caron sig fretless. there are dots on the board up high on the high c string, kinda weird, but cool.... i dont remember how i played tho with those on there, when i was at the fbass factory trying them out. but still george F makes some killer basses. .. and alain is a master...

perhaps all the companys should offer lined sides AND NOT LINES on the fingerboard! but with dots on the lines at the 3,5,7,9 12 etc???? wow thats my patented idea yall!!! hehe companies pay up!

 

[jzucker]

I don't think so. I believe Fender didn't release a fretless J until at least the 80's, and Fender Japan offered one before Fender USA.

It doesn't matter. Jaco could have afforded a replacement neck without lines, HE WANTED THE LINES!