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Lined Fretless question

#81
lpdeluxe said:
It''s a damn shame Jaco never joined Talkbass: he would have learned so much..
Click to expand...

LOL

He would be laughing his head off.

Anyway, let us know what you wind up doing to cover up your lines. If it were me, I'd try the dye first. If that didn't come out to your liking, a fingerboard replacement by a good luthier would be my next choice. You could get a nice ebony board that way, too, which might last a little longer.

A side note, I have two fretless basses, both lined. One intonates correctly with my finger on the line, the other with my finger right on the edge of the line. Since I'm used to it, it doesn't bother me. All in all, I'd say lines, no lines, side dots centered on the fret line, between the fret lines, etc. doesn't matter very much. You just have to spend a LOT of time practicing with your instrumnet(s) until you are playing naturally.

Now, let's have a manual vs. automatic transmission thread. I VOTE MANUAL!!! :p :hiding:
 
#84
A side note, I have two fretless basses, both lined. One intonates correctly with my finger on the line, the other with my finger right on the edge of the line.
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Can't this be altered by moving the bridge saddles a bit? If I set my intonation so that the string is in tune with itself open and at the 12th fret, and set that pitch correctly at the tuner, it would take a far better ear than mine to hear intonation issues at other frets, especially given the fine adjustments in position a fretless permits.
 
#85
Bryan R. Tyler said:
I've had to custom-order two of my lined fretlesses to have dots below the lines because of this. I'm going to have a tech drill out and fill the "improperly placed" dots on my current fretless and put new ones in the "right" spot when I get some extra cash.
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As an interim measure - Liquid Paper. I've used it to make side dots more visible, and it did not harm the finish.
 
#86
The lead player in our band got a strip of reflective tape, and cut small diamonds out of it. He stuck these to the side of the fingerboard over the dots so he can see them on dark stages.

The rhythm player did the same, after he saw how well it worked.

Maybe the answer is to cut "fret lines" out of the tape and stick them on over the dots.
 
#87
ggunn said:
As an interim measure - Liquid Paper. I've used it to make side dots more visible, and it did not harm the finish.
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Someone had used that (that or nail polish) on a fretless I bought used to put the dots in the right spot- problem was that when I went to sell the bass and tried to remove them, it was really tough to get them off because they were on there so long. Right now I just use the lines.
 
#88
lpdeluxe said:
I don't know what you are basing your information on, so I'll assume until otherwise proven that they are production models . . .

If you have some sort of proof or documentation, offer it up. We'll all be smarter for it.:D
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Unfortunately, I don't have access to a 1970 Fender catalogue or price list, which is the only way I can think of to prove whether those basses are stock or custom. The fairly authoritative Vintage Guitar website lists in introduction of a fretless option for the Precision in 1970, but no mention of such an option for the Jazz:

Vintage Fender Info

Also, here are a couple of relevant past threads on the issue. Again, I'll be the first to admit that these aren't "proof":

"First Fender Fretless"

"First Fender Fretless"
 
#89
Here's one more: From Jim Roberts's How The Fender Bass Changed The World, pp.126-127:

"Fender first offered a fretless Precision Bass in 1970 . . . It apparently never occurred to Fender to offer a fretless Jazz Bass, even at the height of Jaco's popularity. This was a sign of how out of touch the company had become by the mid '70s."​
 
#90
Great links.

I don't think the issue is really settled. I had thought the Black and Molinaro book was pretty authoritative, but, as I mentioned, it's mostly silent on fretless instruments, other than offering photos and ad reproductions.

J W Black is a luthier who worked for Fender at the time the book was written (2001); I don't know whether he's still there. Albert Molinaro owns Guitars 'R' Us in Hollywood, CA, and collects Fender basses. The photos were taken by Dave Maddux, another Fender employee. I assumed the book had Fender's blessing, and perhaps its support as well...but Fender has notoriously ignored its own history.

Several writers have remarked on Leo's carelessness with record keeping, and Bill Carson, in his book My Life and Times with Fender Muscial Instruments (cowritten with Willie G Moseley) notes that CBS got rid of many of the historic (from our perspective) instruments left from Leo's era, to the extent that they had to go out on the open market to buy P and J basses to use as models for the "vintage reissues" beginning in 1982.

Carson also said that a number of older instruments and amps, that were deliberately preserved by Fender, were stolen by an employee and later appeared on the vintage market in the 1980s.

It's a shame that Leo never wrote his book about Fender, and equally that nothing has survived from Freddy Tavares. All we have are a few interviews, and those mostly from the perspective of guitar players, so that historically significant questions, such as, "Why a 34" scale?" never were asked.

Carson and Forrest White's books are interesting, but Carson focuses on the Tele and Strat models, and White (Fender - the Inside Story) pretty much ignores the bass and, in any case, he wasn't hired until 1954, after most of the P's history had already been accomplished.

So, we have negative evidence (the fact that none of your sources found a reference to the fretless J) against the single photo in the book.

I'm inclined, now, to think that the Js were custom order instruments. Even absent the Custom Shop, Fender always accommodated customers who wanted, for example, matching painted head stocks or block inlays on Precisions, and so on.

Thanks again for the links.
 
#91
Brad Johnson said:
But they're not "supposed" to... I read it here on TB recently.
:smug:
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That's why those guys are rarely on the forums. You see how long Tony Grey lasted on these forums. One thread, I think...Some guy was telling advising him on something or other and I don't recall ever seeing him back. :D

Most great players don't have the time to sit around and discuss things like string brands, cables, etc. At least not guys of the caliber of Willis, Garrison, Grey, etc.
 
#92
Bryan R. Tyler said:
Someone had used that (that or nail polish) on a fretless I bought used to put the dots in the right spot- problem was that when I went to sell the bass and tried to remove them, it was really tough to get them off because they were on there so long. Right now I just use the lines.
Click to expand...

Sounds like nail polish; Liquid Paper comes right off with a little alcohol on a rag. As a matter of fact, the Liquid Paper wears off pretty quickly if it's in a location where your thumb passes frequently, but replacing it is quick and easy, and the stuff dries almost instantaneously.

I graduated to lights, though:
http://www.fretfx.com/

These things work great. I've had a set on my Epic 5 for about 6 months and I love them.
 
#93
jzucker said:
That's why those guys are rarely on the forums. You see how long Tony Grey lasted on these forums. One thread, I think...Some guy was telling advising him on something or other and I don't recall ever seeing him back. :D

Most great players don't have the time to sit around and discuss things like string brands, cables, etc. At least not guys of the caliber of Willis, Garrison, Grey, etc.
Click to expand...

It (my comment) was a tongue in cheek joke from the very start... guess you missed it.
:D



And judging by Willis' website he had time to pass on some knowledge.
:)
 
#96
Okay. First of all I've always played without lines and have found them to be confusing since you play on the line on a fretless and between them on a fretted. On a fretted you hold the string down over the fret, on a fretless the note is actually the line. So, to make things less confusing, I blackened all of my lines with, don't laugh now, a black Sharpie. Then I added black pinstrip tape to the side to eliminate the off marks on the bass. Then I painted small glow in the dark dots on the tape on the top side so I could see them in the dark. (I actually have the glow in the dark painted dots on all 14 of my basses. Works wonders before the curtain rises, available in any hobby shop.) I've been playing fretless bass since 1978 so before you think I'm a crackpot listen up. I am a professional. I recently got a lined conklin 7 fretless to replace my 6 string unmarked fretless. If you measure with a ruler the side dots you'll see that on a fretless, the side dot should be where the fret is and not in the fret as on a fretted. Works great without having to re-finish the neck which is probably the best way. As the ink wears away over time, I simply re-pen them in black. There is no damage to the fretboard. And my intonation is very rarely off!
 
#97
jimibrix said:
Okay. First of all I've always played without lines and have found them to be confusing since you play on the line on a fretless and between them on a fretted. On a fretted you hold the string down over the fret, on a fretless the note is actually the line. So, to make things less confusing, I blackened all of my lines with, don't laugh now, a black Sharpie. Then I added black pinstrip tape to the side to eliminate the off marks on the bass. Then I painted small glow in the dark dots on the tape on the top side so I could see them in the dark. (I actually have the glow in the dark painted dots on all 14 of my basses. Works wonders before the curtain rises, available in any hobby shop.) I've been playing fretless bass since 1978 so before you think I'm a crackpot listen up. I am a professional. I recently got a lined conklin 7 fretless to replace my 6 string unmarked fretless. If you measure with a ruler the side dots you'll see that on a fretless, the side dot should be where the fret is and not in the fret as on a fretted. Works great without having to re-finish the neck which is probably the best way. As the ink wears away over time, I simply re-pen them in black. There is no damage to the fretboard. And my intonation is very rarely off!
Click to expand...

unless you have the talent of alain caron, it's hard to play fast solos in tune without lines. Even with lines it's tough. As an example,

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#98
The frets can certainly help you to hang on to corners as you spin around them so to speak, but I practice regularly on both fretted and fretless basses. My speed seems to come with the practice rather than the bass. I find that if I don't play for a few days, my speed 'DRASTICALLY' diminishes. Do you find that ? The hardest part of switching basses for me, is string spacing and speed. I end up between strings sometimes and no note comes out, and I can do this on a particular riff a few times in a row and then I want to punch a wall. But I look down and stare at the fretboard for a sec as I do it, and then it's okay. Sometimes I hate practicing but I feel I suck when I don't. Ali used to say the same thing about training. Whatever, we're all different. Hey, thanks for the input, always good to exchange ideas here. I haven't posted in a while, but this is a great place to be.
 
#99
I just got on because I saw the post about a lined fretless, and it's a problem that I've dealt with, so I felt compelled to add my solution. A lined fretless has always been confusing for me and I am much more comfortable with just the side markers and no lines. I sold my 1974 fretless Fender Jazz for that reason. I replaced it with an unlined fretless Precision. It was a maple fretboard with black lines. No way to cover those up! For an ebony fretboard, the Sharpie works great!
 

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