shut it down...the master has spoken
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Lined vs Unlined
- Thread starter Pirate Captain
- Start date
I dunno one way or the other about lines, I just know he had a better hairstylist in the 80s lol
(Great video from Tony about that live recording):
He even quotes Youtube comments making fun of his 80's hair! hehe
(sorry resume your lined/unlined wars, excuse my little excursion into fanboi geekdom hehe)
Tony is great. I’d love to get one of his signature basses someday.
Learned on unlined, been in that camp ever since. 
I don't care which one you go with. Find the bass that brings you joy.
That said, I took out my unlined fretless for the first time in a while this weekend. There is something just too cool about a blank slab staring back at me. I love it!
That said, I took out my unlined fretless for the first time in a while this weekend. There is something just too cool about a blank slab staring back at me. I love it!
disclosure:
- i've been a participant in some fairly gnarly and contentious discussions regarding lined vs. unlined fingerboards.
- i've said/posted some thoughts that may have been unfair to those who prefer lines.
- i believe that i have gotten carried away with the battles without respect to objectivity.
- looking back: the arguments were fun, but they did not advance anything useful for the masses.
so:
- i no longer feel it necessary to defend one preference over another --- anything you can do to play more fretless is good!
- lines, dots, hashes, tape, whatever --- use anything you can to help yourself enjoy fretless EBs!
- i believe that fretless EB is the best EB configuration ever, still, and always will be, and so i will continue to promote fretless EBs as superior in every way!
per the OP:
i think tony hit my weak spot (his bass looked fantastic) but the fact of the matter is that a player can do exactly the same thing (re: his "3rd of the scale" demo) whether the fingerboard is lined or otherwise marked more than the usual side dot references --- because in the final analysis it's what all of us have always stated: "it's your ears, stupid!" and tony proved just that (and IMO, that's all he demonstrated) in the video!
- any cue/marking is for reference. where and how you stop the note is what actually counts.
- all sighted fretless players refer to visual cues on the fingerboard in order to play better.
- only non-fretless players (and newbies/wannabes) would ever say: "you're not supposed to look at your fb."
because in the final analysis, it's all about what you're hearing and not what you're seeing. visually: it's what you're used to playing. it doesn't matter unless it matters to you!
if you can get your eyes to assist your ears = you win!
bless all of you who play fretless EB --- you're helping to make this a better (and more forgiving! ) world! 
- i've been a participant in some fairly gnarly and contentious discussions regarding lined vs. unlined fingerboards.
- i've said/posted some thoughts that may have been unfair to those who prefer lines.
- i believe that i have gotten carried away with the battles without respect to objectivity.
- looking back: the arguments were fun, but they did not advance anything useful for the masses.
so:
- i no longer feel it necessary to defend one preference over another --- anything you can do to play more fretless is good!
- lines, dots, hashes, tape, whatever --- use anything you can to help yourself enjoy fretless EBs!
- i believe that fretless EB is the best EB configuration ever, still, and always will be, and so i will continue to promote fretless EBs as superior in every way!
per the OP:
i think tony hit my weak spot (his bass looked fantastic) but the fact of the matter is that a player can do exactly the same thing (re: his "3rd of the scale" demo) whether the fingerboard is lined or otherwise marked more than the usual side dot references --- because in the final analysis it's what all of us have always stated: "it's your ears, stupid!" and tony proved just that (and IMO, that's all he demonstrated) in the video!
- any cue/marking is for reference. where and how you stop the note is what actually counts.
- all sighted fretless players refer to visual cues on the fingerboard in order to play better.
- only non-fretless players (and newbies/wannabes) would ever say: "you're not supposed to look at your fb."
because in the final analysis, it's all about what you're hearing and not what you're seeing. visually: it's what you're used to playing. it doesn't matter unless it matters to you!
if you can get your eyes to assist your ears = you win!
bless all of you who play fretless EB --- you're helping to make this a better (and more forgiving!
) world!
Last edited:
Now we'll hear from other Masters.
Like Gary Willis,John Pattitucci,"Flim" Johnson,Alain Caron and Mark Egan for a rebuttal.
Like Gary Willis,John Pattitucci,"Flim" Johnson,Alain Caron and Mark Egan for a rebuttal.
Unlined is better for playing in tune. Period. Hitting a note in tune demands that you put you finger in the right spot. You can only use your eyes and muscle memory to place your finger. Ears do not guide your finger to the right place, but ears kick into gear once the note is first plucked and help to correct off pitch notes and to refine hand position so that muscle memory works better on the next note.
Here's my proof. Close your eyes and have someone hand you a fretless 4 string of unknown scale. Might be 30, 32, 34, 35". With your eyes closed, using only your ears and muscle memory, play an Eb. Odds are pretty good you'll be way off the mark. Open your eyes, now play Eb. Probably be pretty close.
Tony's point that the lack of lines gives you freedom to correct for correct pitch (i.e. not constrained by the lines) isn't a limitation of lines, but a limitation of the player who hasn't yet learned how to use the lines to their best advantage.
I play unlined. Side dots are enough visual reference for me. I like the looks better and, quite honestly, if I'm playing fretless I want FULL CREDIT from the audience
Here's my proof. Close your eyes and have someone hand you a fretless 4 string of unknown scale. Might be 30, 32, 34, 35". With your eyes closed, using only your ears and muscle memory, play an Eb. Odds are pretty good you'll be way off the mark. Open your eyes, now play Eb. Probably be pretty close.
Tony's point that the lack of lines gives you freedom to correct for correct pitch (i.e. not constrained by the lines) isn't a limitation of lines, but a limitation of the player who hasn't yet learned how to use the lines to their best advantage.
I play unlined. Side dots are enough visual reference for me. I like the looks better and, quite honestly, if I'm playing fretless I want FULL CREDIT from the audience
Last edited:
this debate is stupid. Lines helps a lot. It isn’t like once you have line that you don’t correct the notes to be in tune …
Big TF fan here.
Not sold on the logic in this vid.
There is nothing on a lined board that prevents a player from adjusting any interval by ear.
Not sold on the logic in this vid.
There is nothing on a lined board that prevents a player from adjusting any interval by ear.
If you are tone deaf how can you play music at all ?
He is just showing the difference between just and equal temperament.
I don’t think his discussion really has too much to do with “lined vs unlined” because the difference is so tiny, it’s barely visible. You can literally roll your finger just a little bit and go back and forth.
Being able to hear an in tune third (or any interval) against a reference tone takes practice. Even when you are good at it, just turning your head a little can change when the waves are hitting your eardrums.
Being able to recognize an in tune interval without a reference tone is much harder still.
… I tip my hat to those players that can.
If you have an IPhone, download the app: Tunerval
And test your interval recognition abilities.
I don’t think his discussion really has too much to do with “lined vs unlined” because the difference is so tiny, it’s barely visible. You can literally roll your finger just a little bit and go back and forth.
Being able to hear an in tune third (or any interval) against a reference tone takes practice. Even when you are good at it, just turning your head a little can change when the waves are hitting your eardrums.
Being able to recognize an in tune interval without a reference tone is much harder still.
… I tip my hat to those players that can.
If you have an IPhone, download the app: Tunerval
And test your interval recognition abilities.
Yes, lines help with the intonation. It is a visual thing too. I personally like no lines. It was a challenge to learn to do it that way. For me, it helped with learning vibrato. But you have to be careful.
But do it the way YOU want to. We can discuss this all day, but it’s your personal preference. Just have fun!
But do it the way YOU want to. We can discuss this all day, but it’s your personal preference. Just have fun!
Ironically, Tony's main point in the video is true of, and applicable to, a lined or unlined fretless.
Last edited:
