Live Bass - Use A Stage Amp With IEM?

[Geri O]

Not rare at all, if you listen for it. Only rare that it will create enough havoc to throw you off your game unless you run your IEM vocal very wet. If you're particular about your IEM bass tone, though, it's an issue.

This may a little more than rare, and it can be heard, but without some measuring software, it won't be easy to pin down exactly what's causing it.

It may be an issue for you, but I've not run into that to the point of feeling the need to address it. And I'm a retired sound guy who has deal with phase (the time vs frequncy type with lobes, nulls, and comb-filtering, not the electrical kind that is properly known as "polarity" and doesn't happen in the air).

And I didn't spend $3600 on wireless wear for my bass and my IEMs to not care about how my bass sounds. Same for the $700 I'm about to drop on a REDDI DI.

 

[sonicnuance]

For the past couple of years using IEM I have not used an amp. The reasons are:
1) The subs of the FOH make it unnecessary
2) Soundmen generally don't like having a volume source on stage and it clutters the look of the stage
3) I don't like bringing equipment if I don't have to
4) I trust my soundmen to make the mix sound good. I just worry about giving them a good signal.

 

[nervous]

For the past couple of years using IEM I have not used an amp. The reasons are:
1) The subs of the FOH make it unnecessary
2) Soundmen generally don't like having a volume source on stage and it clutters the look of the stage
3) I don't like bringing equipment if I don't have to
4) I trust my soundmen to make the mix sound good. I just worry about giving them a good signal.

All of which were my original arguments for no longer needing one. But, our regular sound company recommended a little stage sound for balance. Nothing crazy here, we're talking about a 2x10 combo. But there is merit.

 

[SteveC]

Filling the space where the FOH may not cover and adding balance to the stage sound against drume and a guitar amp for patrons in a less than ideal FOH seat made sense.

That isn't completely off the wall. I wouldn't need it at my church gig but I can see the logic.

For the past couple of years using IEM I have not used an amp. The reasons are:
1) The subs of the FOH make it unnecessary
2) Soundmen generally don't like having a volume source on stage and it clutters the look of the stage
3) I don't like bringing equipment if I don't have to
4) I trust my soundmen to make the mix sound good. I just worry about giving them a good signal.

This is pretty much exactly our reasoning at church.

 

[nervous]

That isn't completely off the wall. I wouldn't need it at my church gig but I can see the logic.

And mind you that combo is at a reasonable volume that will not interfere with the FOH whatsoever and is pointed cross stage or sometimes even slightly rearward or on an angle stand.

 

[dheafey]

I use John Harvey JH11's (dual bass drivers, mid, hi) and have an amp on stage. For me, going totally direct without a backline sounded clinical and lifeless. With my amp loud enough to get through my IEM's yet not so loud to cause the soundman fits, I still get that visceral, tactile feeling that is so important to me. Then again, we never play rooms smaller than 200 people, so I'm afforded a decent sized stage.

On the subject of 1 IEM in and one out, it's a bad idea. It has to do with how our brains are wired; we need to hear things in stereo and when fed a mono signal, the brain has to work overtime to encode it into stereo. That's my layman's understanding of the science, but Google is your friend and there's smarter people than me out there.

 

[s0c9]

On the subject of 1 IEM in and one out, it's a bad idea. It has to do with how our brains are wired; we need to hear things in stereo and when fed a mono signal, the brain has to work overtime to encode it into stereo. That's my layman's understanding of the science, but Google is your friend and there's smarter people than me out there.

I has more to do with TURNING UP the IEM in the other ear to balance out stage sound levels in the non-IEM ear, than the mono/stereo thing. Doing so defeats the purpose of having IEM's (protect your hearing, lower SPL's in your ears, etc.) and mostly puts a LOUDER source closer to your ear than you would if you didn't use the one IEM to begin with.

 

[dheafey]

I has more to do with TURNING UP the IEM in the other ear to balance out stage sound levels in the non-IEM ear, than the mono/stereo thing. Doing so defeats the purpose of having IEM's (protect your hearing, lower SPL's in your ears, etc.) and mostly puts a LOUDER source closer to your ear than you would if you didn't use the one IEM to begin with.

A few good links on both subjects:
Stereo/Mono - Invalid Link Removed
Turning Up - The Danger of Wearing Only One IEM - Blog | 1964 EARS | Custom In-Ear Monitors

 

[sonicnuance]

Here is a blog post you might find helpful on the subject: Invalid Link Removed

 

[Session1969]

This is a great thread. Sub'd

 

[Lync]

Just buying into IEM's...many of the systems have a 2 channel mixer so you can mix more of yourself over the monitor mix fed to you (in my instance, more of my bass if need be). I am wondering if this would help those who just don't have enough bass?

 

[SteveC]

The "more me" option is good to have. We use QMix and I can dial in my IEM mix myself on my iPhone. Really nice. No need for a "more me" option but is there if I choose.

 

[Lync]

Yes, seems like "more me" works for those situations where you can't control your personal mix. Probably (hopefully) in a few years that will be commonplace.

It is going to be interesting to see how some clubs react. Especially the ones with suspect "multi" monitor mixes.

 

[SteveC]

I am fortunate that I am at a church that spent a lot of money when they remodeled and did an addition for contemporary worship. All DI, all IEM, all WiFi, flown mains and 4 18" subs.

 

[s0c9]

Yes, seems like "more me" works for those situations where you can't control your personal mix. Probably (hopefully) in a few years that will be commonplace.

It is going to be interesting to see how some clubs react. Especially the ones with suspect "multi" monitor mixes.

The venues I play that provide FOH and house sound guy provide nothing on stage but a snake (+splitter) and drum riser. Everything else on the stage is the bands.. IEM's, mics, cables, gear, wedges, etc.

We run IEM.. with everything patched into our X32 wherever we play. Doesn't matter if it's our PA or the house PA.

Since it's our backline, mics, cables, etc.. the gain/trim settings and channel EQ doesn't change much (if at all) on the X32 from gig to gig. Setup/teardown is quick also.

No messing with monitor mixes.. power up and go.. adjust IEM mix levels to suit - via iDevice app!

 

[SteveC]

^^^^^
That's the way to go.

 

[Lync]

The venues I play that provide FOH and house sound guy provide nothing on stage but a snake (+splitter) and drum riser. Everything else on the stage is the bands.. IEM's, mics, cables, gear, wedges, etc.

We run IEM.. with everything patched into our X32 wherever we play. Doesn't matter if it's our PA or the house PA.

Since it's our backline, mics, cables, etc.. the gain/trim settings and channel EQ doesn't change much (if at all) on the X32 from gig to gig. Setup/teardown is quick also.

No messing with monitor mixes.. power up and go.. adjust IEM mix levels to suit - via iDevice app!

I have a Mackie DL1608 (for the occasion when we don't have our soundguy or a house system available). Thought about using that with a pass-thru snake so we always have our monitor mix and the soundguy is out of the equation. But...more gear to bring ha ha. I'll see how it goes first using the sound available.

 

[nervous]

The venues I play that provide FOH and house sound guy provide nothing on stage but a snake (+splitter) and drum riser. Everything else on the stage is the bands.. IEM's, mics, cables, gear, wedges, etc.

We run IEM.. with everything patched into our X32 wherever we play. Doesn't matter if it's our PA or the house PA.

Since it's our backline, mics, cables, etc.. the gain/trim settings and channel EQ doesn't change much (if at all) on the X32 from gig to gig. Setup/teardown is quick also.

No messing with monitor mixes.. power up and go.. adjust IEM mix levels to suit - via iDevice app!

Forgive my ignorance but I am intrigued. What is the "X32" that you speak of?

 

[EastCoastThump]

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

also available in other forms, including a rack mixer:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Geri O]

The venues I play that provide FOH and house sound guy provide nothing on stage but a snake (+splitter) and drum riser. Everything else on the stage is the bands.. IEM's, mics, cables, gear, wedges, etc.

We run IEM.. with everything patched into our X32 wherever we play. Doesn't matter if it's our PA or the house PA.

Since it's our backline, mics, cables, etc.. the gain/trim settings and channel EQ doesn't change much (if at all) on the X32 from gig to gig. Setup/teardown is quick also.

No messing with monitor mixes.. power up and go.. adjust IEM mix levels to suit - via iDevice app!

Steve, in situations where FOH mixer and PA is provided, are you carrying a split snake or do you rely on the production guys to hand you a set of tails from their split?

I don't have a splitter, but I'm thinking about getting a 40-channel split w/ 12 returns. It would have a 20ft whip for my X32 and a 50ft whip to hand FOH.

I'm asking because twice this year, the providers have had to pull their monitor whip from a console to provide me with a set of tails. And they weren't happy about it at all. And it's hard to blame them, although I advanced the need for a split to my mixer earlier on. My former employer has several extra whips just for this purpose (Everything snake-related is on Ramlatch mults that I built years ago). I had to agree to assist the stage guy in removing, then replacing his monitor split (I also showed him how to use a router and iPad with his mixer, which helped redeem me a bit in his eyes. Geez...).

I've really spent enough on this stage set-up that I didn't see coming when I started playing again a couple of years ago. I certainly don't begrudge it and it's been easy enough to do, but I don't look forward to spending another several hundred to a couple of thousand $$$ (depending on how much capability I build into it) to get to that point. I may look for a used one. Having a truck payment for the first time in 12 years hasn't helped....

(I'd rather spend that money on an X32 in a rack as a spare mixer. I'm not worried about needing it, but hey, you can't have enough spares. My X32 saved the day a couple of weeks ago when the digital monitor console failed to boot and work at a concert with a national artist known for taking on the devil in a fiddling contest in Georgia. My X32 was rented for the openers, but wound up being sequestered for monitor duty. I hear it served them quite well.)