LM2 vs. NeoPak

[jzucker]

I think we all should extend some appreciation and credit to Walter Woods for leading the pack (and in some ways defining the market) in the basic concept of compact bass amps. He was ahead of his time and deserves some credit for where the market is (and will be) headed.

He deserves credit but it was heading in that direction anyway. Car stereo systems led the way with very small and VERY LOUD systems using class D amplifiers. They were also very cheap.

Acoustic Image was the first *serious* company putting out small class D amps at reasonable prices that could fit in a shoulder bag. I think they deserve a lot of credit.

 

[KJung]

Just to step back for a minute and look at the big picture... it's a great time to be a bass player isn't it?

There's an awful lot of really good gear available by most manufacturers and it's kind of funny to be discussing the fine points of a feature/performance that didn't really exist even a few years back.

I think we all should extend some appreciation and credit to Walter Woods for leading the pack (and in some ways defining the market) in the basic concept of compact bass amps. He was ahead of his time and deserves some credit for where the market is (and will be) headed.

+1000. I've been a Walter user since the late 80's, since he was really the only 'high powered/ultra light' sort of game in town until very recently. It's amazing in that I am getting ready to sell my Ultra (probably) due to all of you guys catching up, and IMO improving on his groundbreaking work. It will be the first time I will be 'Walter-less' for over 20 years.

Nice post... you are going to get the award for the most nice posts in a thread in a 48 hour period

 

[Big String]

Just to step back for a minute and look at the big picture... it's a great time to be a bass player isn't it?

There's an awful lot of really good gear available by most manufacturers and it's kind of funny to be discussing the fine points of a feature/performance that didn't really exist even a few years back.

I think we all should extend some appreciation and credit to Walter Woods for leading the pack (and in some ways defining the market) in the basic concept of compact bass amps. He was ahead of his time and deserves some credit for where the market is (and will be) headed.

Boy... I'll second that one. Mr. Woods is a true innovator and one heck of a nice guy. I had several very enjoyable conversations with him. I don't own my WWU anymore but it was a great little amp. Thanks Walter.

 

[KJung]

Acoustic Image was the first *serious* company putting out small class D amps at reasonable prices that could fit in a shoulder bag. I think they deserve a lot of credit.

Another +1!

 

[realdeal]

And thank you for the drama. As usual you are not reading for content, instead looking for some perceived slight. That's your problem, not mine.

If anyone provoked anything it was the people who wrote the statements I've questioned in this thread. You want to assume I'm being uncivil and you even go as far as to imagine me using language I clearly haven't used. Again, that's your problem, not mine.

And the icing on the cake is you calling the people who aren't in agreement with you MB-centric enablers. No doubt that's not name-calling in your world. OTOH I've politely pointed out my position without the namecalling you've resorted to.

Lighten up and read. The actual words. It's fun and you might actually learn something. Or not.

The Doctor is in......

 

[Brad Johnson]

Whatever that means.

 

[jzucker]

Whatever that means.

It means you're as opinionated as he is but you express yourself better.

 

[Brad Johnson]

It means you're as opinionated as he is but you express yourself better.

I'll Paypal you the $.05.

 

[Peter Murray]

When gigging the head, the Neo-Pak has the headroom available to largely negate the rated power difference at 4 ohms. Plus it has a well-designed limiter which allows the player to hit it hard on transients safely. AFAIK, the LMII does not have a limiter, so if you crank it up for max power, it will run out of headroom and distort.

FYI the Little Mark II does have a limiter.

Cheers,
Peter

 

[rok51]

...Nice post... you are going to get the award for the most nice posts in a thread in a 48 hour period

Aw, He's just that kinda guy!


Kim

 

[CaptainWally]

I don't have any scientific data to back this up, but I disagree. I A/B's the Neo-Pak LMII on a gig with my Schroeder 1210 and the LMII was considerably louder and had more headroom.

Don't get me wrong, I really liked the Neo-Pak, but for me, the voicing of the LMII coupled with the available headroom did it for me. I will freely admit, things may have been different with a different cabinet.

+1 for the most part.

I did an A/B at a rehearsal. I only use my rig as a stage monitor at gigs, so this is as valid a test as I'll ever have.

So bear that in mind. My A/B doesn't (and never will) apply to providing sound to the house. I depend on FOH.

Also bear in mind this is only a test with the Bergie Stack. A 4 ohm load. Yes, the NeoPak might very well sound as loud if the same cabs were wired for 2 ohms during the NeoPak test. They weren't. So just consider this a comparison @ 4 ohms only.

The Neo-Pak does indeed sound good in the mix, but the LM2 is the clear winner in sheer volume. The Neo-Pak is crispier and more articulate. The LM2 has more...balls.

And actually I think I did make earlier mention of the non-linear characteristic of power vs. volume. And I agree that the theoretical difference between 350W and 500W should be nominal at best (< 3dB) . Like OP1964, my practical A/B was also that the LM2 was appreciably louder.

So overall, I think the Neo-Pak is a very, very nice amp. It would be an especially great choice for someone that wants to hear a lot of sonic detail in their playing. It offers a lot of great tone and features (yes, including a 2 ohm capability), and it's by no means a quiet amp. I think it's more that the LM2 is just a freakishly loud little box.

Overall, I'd heartily recommend it to anyone. I think a Neo-Pak with more power would be venerable indeed, but it's a darn fine amp just as it is.

 

[Michael Vee]

FYI the Little Mark II does have a limiter.

Peter, I definitely defer to you on this. I made that statement based on the Little Mark II webpage. The specs listing does not mention a limiter. You might want to ask the web guys to add that fact.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Peter, I definitely defer to you on this. I made that statement based on the Little Mark II webpage. The specs listing does not mention a limiter. You might want to ask the web guys to add that fact.

It shows the limiter in the block diagram in the owner's manual. It's not user selectable.

 

[CaptainWally]

+1 for the most part.

I did an A/B at a rehearsal. I only use my rig as a stage monitor at gigs, so this is as valid a test as I'll ever have.

So bear that in mind. My A/B doesn't (and never will) apply to providing sound to the house. I depend on FOH.

Also bear in mind this is only a test with the Bergie Stack. A 4 ohm load. Yes, the NeoPak might very well sound as loud if the same cabs were wired for 2 ohms during the NeoPak test. They weren't. So just consider this a comparison @ 4 ohms only.

The Neo-Pak does indeed sound good in the mix, but the LM2 is the clear winner in sheer volume. The Neo-Pak is crispier and more articulate. The LM2 has more...balls.

And actually I think I did make earlier mention of the non-linear characteristic of power vs. volume. And I agree that the theoretical difference between 350W and 500W should be nominal at best (< 3dB) . Like OP1964, my practical A/B was also that the LM2 was appreciably louder.

So overall, I think the Neo-Pak is a very, very nice amp. It would be an especially great choice for someone that wants to hear a lot of sonic detail in their playing. It offers a lot of great tone and features (yes, including a 2 ohm capability), and it's by no means a quiet amp. I think it's more that the LM2 is just a freakishly loud little box.

Overall, I'd heartily recommend it to anyone. I think a Neo-Pak with more power would be venerable indeed, but it's a darn fine amp just as it is.

Boy, I guess I killed the conversation with that post.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
That's all we have to say about that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Boy, I guess I killed the conversation with that post.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
That's all we have to say about that.

Nah... from what I was told I destroyed this thread a few days ago.

 

[CaptainWally]

I've still got both of these amps.

I had intended to sell off the Neo-Pak simply because I don't really need two amps around, and the LM2 was filling the bill. But then with the discontinuation, Neo-Pak prices dropped to silly levels (for ~$400..BUY ONE!). So I decided to keep it around a while.

After having it for a while longer, I have the following to add:

- Again, I emphasize the form factor of the Neo-Pak is awesome. LM2 is fine (ok, a little "Fischer Pricey"), but the Neo is top shelf on the build front.

- I've begun to appreciate that the Neo-Pak has a 3D quality to its tone. The LM2 definitely has great tone, but one quibble might be that it's a little transparent and "flat" sounding (as in non-3D). The tube in the Neo-Pak is subtle, but definitely adds character.

- The Neo-Pak cuts through the mix very nicely.

- Set flat, the Neo-Pak doesn't have as much low-end as the LM2 (quite noticeable). Hence, doesn't sound as nicely pillowy in the living room. But there is the old classic mistake of bringing too much basiness to the gig and booming out mud. So the Neo-Pak is definitely voiced for the gig, and not the living room. To be kept in mind when trying it out. I mentioned before that I found my Alembic F-1X to be buttery smooth goodness in the living room, but almost useless on my gig (YMMV - and yes, I set it to 1-10-1).

- Any one else think the "retina searing" blue lights are a little much? I was playing in near darkness the other day, and I had a ghostly blue aura all around me.

Overall, I'll say again - both these amps are awesome.

The forthcoming GB 6.0 shuttle will be interesting indeed, and will be even more serious competition for the LM2. What you got up your sleeve to counter, Peter?

The more they duke it out, the better it gets for us. Things sure have gotten better for bass players in the last few years!

 

[Eublet]

- Set flat, the Neo-Pak doesn't have as much low-end as the LM2 (quite noticeable). Hence, doesn't sound as nicely pillowy in the living room. But there is the old classic mistake of bringing too much basiness to the gig and booming out mud. So the Neo-Pak is definitely voiced for the gig, and not the living room. To be kept in mind when trying it out. I mentioned before that I found my Alembic F-1X to be buttery smooth goodness in the living room, but almost useless on my gig (YMMV - and yes, I set it to 1-10-1).

True, but I seldom run my Neo-pak or 1200 flat anymore. I like a bit more low mid push, so I bost the lows to around 1-2 o'oclock, and then add a low-mids (200 hz) to 1 or 2 o'clock as well. This setting still isn't muddy, and it give a bit more of that pillowy bottom that most players seem to prefer. IMO it's much easier to add this bottom into a flatter amp than it is to remove it from a head that already has it. YMMV.

- Any one else think the "retina searing" blue lights are a little much? I was playing in near darkness the other day, and I had a ghostly blue aura all around me.

Absolutely not! I love them!