They are definitely not mid scooped. It's gonna be hard to beat the Mesa Subway cabs.
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They are definitely not mid scooped. It's gonna be hard to beat the Mesa Subway cabs.
I'm running a TH500 through a pair of Trace Elliot Elf 2x8 cabs. The sound, to me, is exactly as you described. Surprisingly deep, thanks in part to the faital 8PR200s used by TE, full with lots of punch. The pair open nicely and are very musical when pushed by 500+ watts.
Definitely worth trying if you have the chance.
Definitely worth trying if you have the chance.
The Subway tone is far from "mid-scooped". You get out what you put in, only louder
. You really need to experience it live.
Agreed -- there are some clear 15s these days. I'd never have considered one in the past, but could see myself playing one now.
If looking at compact/light 15s, I'd also look at the Audiokinesis Hathor 1533 -- the Hathor 2x12 that I mentioned in my previous post will go louder with enough power (similar efficiency as the 15, but higher power handling) but, with the 500 Watts RMS ceiling of the LMIII the OP is using, the 15 should go just as loud as the 2x12.
Worth noting: The Subway 15 is 8 Ohms. The 1533 is switchable between 4 and 8 Ohms. Whether one or the other is better in that regard would depend on how you planned to use it.
Too, depending on how loud the OP (or anyone) wants to go, I'm thinking a single, really good 15 might suffice (and suggest the 4 Ohm 1533 in that spirit), but both the Subway and Hathor 15s are made to play well with (and handle a similar amount of power to) their 12" counterparts, so a 2x15 or a 15+12 stack would be options with either.
The Combo Head is, as far as I know, a Little Mark II with a different face plate (and no top plate, inside the combo). The Combo Head II -- again, as far as I know -- is a Little Mark III.
I owned a TH500 for a little while... both it and the Little Mark II/III are capable of being fairly warm and fairly clear at the same time. The TH will let you dial in some more fur/wool, if you want. The LM is more open up top and I found it to be a little more clear.
Haven't tried an AG700, but played an AG500 through an Aggie 410 (not sure which, but it was tweed and not the "light" model) at a studio last summer. Found it to be very clear and hard-hitting, perhaps a bit stiff feeling, really good with slap. I remember finding one of the controls (high mid?) to be a bit peaky -- felt like it would have been more useful with a broader "Q" (width).
The AG500 is the AG700's bigger, heavier predecessor. It's a class D amp, but uses a transformer in lieu of the switch-mode power supplies (SMPS) that most class D amps use these days. (Interestingly, kind of a mirror image of the Little Mark II and earlier Little Mark III amps, which were class AB with an SMPS -- current ones are class D.)
Anyway, the demos of the AG700 I've heard seem to be in the same spirit as the AG500 (wider, more clear and dynamic, less round and harmonically complex than the TH500). Don't know if they've tweaked the EQ/voicing and can't say from experience how the power section feels/delivers. It would be interesting to play the amps side-by-side -- particularly through a good cab and in a performance situation.
I think, depending on the type of sound you're going for, that the AG might be harder to "pocket" than the other amps (more going on down low, less "round" presentation -- I think it would be great with some stuff but might be harder to get, say, a burpy Jazz bass tone) but I didn't spend enough time with it (the AG500, anyway) to say for sure (and, again, the AG700 might be a different animal). That's not necessarily a knock on the AG700 -- based on my experience with the 500, I would be interested in trying one sometime.
On the topic of AG700 vs. LMIII, I found this video. Perhaps you'll find it useful -- I did (and I like that the guy made note of the frequency centers of the different EQ controls on each amp and bothered mixing in a "phase-coherent" miced signal) but would also take it with a grain of salt with regard to the way EQ changes were approached -- knob positions might correlate with different amounts of boost and cut on the different amps (and noon on the VPF is a whole lot of scoop on the Markbass):
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Thank you! As usual, super informative. About the 1x15s: I don't like the idea of one 4 ohm 15, because I might want to add a 2x10 or some other cab, (Which is why I went with a 4 ohm/2 8 ohm 2x12/1x12s for a balance) and I'm wondering about "2" 8 ohms. If the LM3 is as weak at 8 ohms as people claim it to be, I don't know if 1 "15 would be enough. I could probably combine then, like a 1x15 and a 1x12, but I'd rather have two of the same or just one 2x12
EDIT: What I mean to say is that I'd rather have 2 "12 speakers as opposed to 2 "15 speakers. (For mobility as well)
EDIT: What I mean to say is that I'd rather have 2 "12 speakers as opposed to 2 "15 speakers. (For mobility as well)[/QUOTE]
Actually, what if I were to put a 1x15 with a 1x12? Has anyone tried those together? Logically, I’d assume it would work, although it would be nice to just have ONE 2x12 cab!
Actually, what if I were to put a 1x15 with a 1x12? Has anyone tried those together? Logically, I’d assume it would work, although it would be nice to just have ONE 2x12 cab!
If you're going to be running a single, larger cab (in lieu of two smaller ones) with the LMIII, I'd go with a 4 Ohm cab, no question, whatever its driver complement. I don't know that I'd call the LMIII "weak" at 8 Ohms -- my little CMD 121P combo, powered by an LMII (Combo Head) is astonishingly loud, for what it is, at 8 Ohms -- but it definitely has more to give at 4 Ohms.
In the case of the Hathor 1533, you can switch it between 8 and 4 Ohms. At 4 Ohms, it's as efficient (you get as much sound-per-Watt), as the Hathor 2x12 -- actually a hair more, per Duke LeJeune's specs (98 dB/Watt/meter, vs. 97 dB for the 2x12). So, if you feed both cabs 300 Watts, a single 1533 will be as loud (or a hair louder) than the 2x12. Same deal with 500 Watts. Now, with enough amp, you can go louder with the 2x12 (it will handle 1000 Watts, whereas the 1533 tops out at 500), but since the LMIII is a 500 Watt (at 4 Ohms) amp, with that head, it's not a consideration.
Other things (schlep, form-factor, voicing) might very well still be considerations -- and, with a micro-head like the LMIII, I, personally, would prefer a taller 2x12 over a shorter 1x15. I threw the 1533 out there as an option because of its 4 Ohm capability, because of the LMIII's parameters (500 Watts, 4 Ohms min) and because you could, if you wanted, switch it to 8 Ohms and still add another cab to it later.
As for mixing 12s and 15s, that's not something I'd normally advise, but the AK and Subway cabs are known to work well that way. (Note, if using the 12" and 15" Hathor cabs together you would, in most cases, want to set the 1533 to 8 Ohms -- power handling is similar between the 12" and 15" cabs.) Anyway, I get if the 15" isn't your thing.
Re. efficiency specs, I think that they can be useful for comparing speakers within a line (assuming the manufacturer uses the same metric for all of their speakers), but, unless you really know what you're looking for (drivers used and other relevant parameters and/or how the manufacturer derived their specs) I'd take them with a grain of salt when comparing cabs between different manufacturers. My Markbass CMD121P combo, for instance, is listed at 99 dB efficiency. My Hathor 1203 is listed at 94 dB. I've played the head through the combo and the 1203 separately and with the two stacked. There is no way in hell that the combo is 5 dB more efficient than the 1203 (and I've given my opinion on their relative merits and the relative merits of the NY121 and Hathor cabs, a few posts up). There are different ways that this number can be arrived at and manufacturers are likely to pick one that is favorable to them.
Everything is relative -- the sound you're going for, room, and people you're playing with can all affect how much and what sort of rig you need. Among modern heads, I'd consider the LMIII to be moderately powerful, but not in the top-tier of micros in that regard. For single cabs in the size/form/schlep range you seem to be looking at, I like the 4 Ohm MAS 112 with the custom Eminence driver and the Hathor 2x12 (also 4 Ohms). A little smaller (and deeper-voiced), the MAS 28 (to which you could add a 18). There's the Hathor 1533 (which I've not played but have a good feeling about based on my experience of the 1203) and two Hathor 1203s (one or both of which could be a "tall" version).
The above would be my personal first picks -- but I repeat myself. There are lots of other cabs that could net you a good result -- people have spoken highly of the Subway and Genzler cabs and the GK Neo 12s (I am not a fan of their Neo 10s -- at least not the Neo 410 cab or 210 combo I tried -- voicing was scooped for my taste), used Bergs, certain Ampegs, the Markbass NY 121s or 121H cabs, used Glockenklang cabs (a friend plays a stack of Glock 12s with a Markbass head), a stack of EA Wizzy 12s... there are others. Something with a fairly balanced response, good mids, and at least moderately efficient is what I would look for.
Good luck!
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Actually, what if I were to put a 1x15 with a 1x12? Has anyone tried those together? Logically, I’d assume it would work, although it would be nice to just have ONE 2x12 cab![/QUOTE]
Yes, I ran a 112 with a 115, snd the 112 didn't like it at all at stage volume. It was straining before the 115 was even sweating.
Use matched pairs.
I've been using the Subway D 800+ and two 1x12 cabs. Definitely not a mid-scoop sound. It does produce one of the best mid-scoop sounds I've heard, but you can dial in whatever you want. I pretty much set the amp flat and dial in the tone from my bass. One of the punchiest amps ever. The cabs come in at just a touch over 33 lbs. and the head just over 6 lbs. Really glad I got them, so is my back.
Thank you to everyone for your help.
Okay, so I’m thinking of going the route of 2x12. I don’t think that I would go with (2) 1x12s because they’re more expensive, and in the end, one cab would be more logical than two, if they’re essentially doing the same thing. I might look more at the Hathor 1203s though.
If anyone has any advice on a 2x12, if really appreciate it!
Okay, so I’m thinking of going the route of 2x12. I don’t think that I would go with (2) 1x12s because they’re more expensive, and in the end, one cab would be more logical than two, if they’re essentially doing the same thing. I might look more at the Hathor 1203s though.
If anyone has any advice on a 2x12, if really appreciate it!
Been using the cmd121p combo atop a Traveller 12 cab for years. Lightweight,powerful,and sounds fab. I disconnected the combo’s tweeter,but the adjustable horn in the Traveller is plenty.
It’s very simple,so Might as well just share it here.
1.take off speaker grille.
2.unscrew tweeter from baffle.
3.remove wire (clip) from tweeter. ( i also wrapped the clip in electrical tape).
4. Reverse steps 1 and 2.
^^ Depending on your feelings re. the Markbass piezo tweeters and how useful you find it to have one, you gents might be interested in this thread (partway through, discusses swapping a Monacor HT-30 tweeter for the stock one -- different component values for the very simple crossover/HPF in the combos were also suggested, but I didn't mess with those): Tweeter for MarkBass amps (151p and 121p)
I believe that there are other threads on the same topic.
FWIW, I tried the tweeter swap and, for my taste, found it to be an improvement (see my opinion in the thread -- might depend on your taste and the mix). I like the mid-and-treble presentation of the MAS and Hathor cabs better, though.
I believe that there are other threads on the same topic.
FWIW, I tried the tweeter swap and, for my taste, found it to be an improvement (see my opinion in the thread -- might depend on your taste and the mix). I like the mid-and-treble presentation of the MAS and Hathor cabs better, though.
What's your max budget?
Checkout RS212 Bass Cabinet | RevSound
Reasonable price for a light, low and loud cab. Call builder David Luke to discuss your needs.
Official Revsound Bass Cab Club
Also, I suggest Adding an adjustable HPF/LPF to your signal chain so you'll be good for pretty much any gig, FOH or not.
High Pass Filter (HPF) and Low Pass Filter (LPF) Mega Thread
Here's the executive summary:
IME, a HPF (high pass filter) also:
1) helps deals with boomy venue and/or stage acoustics (like putting your rig on a stand or a pad, which I also recommend, to disconnect from stage)
2) decreases speaker "floppyness" by reducing mechanical movement, especially in ported cabs. Still, it works for sealed cabs too.
3) Protects speakers from transient spikes
4) Keeps your amp from working so hard and gives more headroom by cutting unneeded frequencies (below port tuning or speaker range).
5) Can help balance string to string volume
6) Better stage volume and clarity
7) Allows your bass amp tone control(s) to boost or cut frequencies that matter. If you add a LPF (low pass filter), depending on your style, you can tame the highs as well.
8) Allows you to control what you send to the FOH mixing board. Why send mud to the FOH? Same for LPF.
9) Helps keep your rig from stepping on the kick drum's slot
10) Can also be used by guitar and keyboard players to cut their low-end incursions into bass guitar territory
11) Helps you sit in the mix better because your rig is not reproducing muddy and/or non-hearable lows even if it sounds good on stage
12) Allows your passive or active bass guitar tone controls to be more effective
13) Controls and protects speakers from effects that produce sub-octave tones. Can also improve sub-octave tracking along with improving the tone of effects that produce too much low and mid-lows, especially distortion effects. Some pedals come with an HPF and some come with an internal splitter that creates both distortion and clean, allowing you to blend both for best effect before outputting to your amp.
Also known as a low-cut filter, rumble filter or sub-sonic filter, it could also be called an anti-distortion filter or equalizer. It cuts low frequencies your speakers can't reproduce or reproduce well.
@agedhorse has included one in top-of-line Mesa amps. Gotta mean something. Some amps come with a built-in, fixed HPF that is not documented. Call the manufacturer for more info.
FYI, I use the tiny Broughton Audio adjustable, always-on HPF in pedal format. https://www.broughtonaudio.com/
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