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Locking in with a drummer's feel and tempo

#22
jthisdell said:
I've always heard that bass locks into the kick and guitar locks into he snare. Not an absolute rule but it is a god place to start.
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In my childhood, I played a lot of Polkas, and we followed your rule. :smug:


Here is a good example on the kick/bass lock.
The bass line is very dry (electronic) but locked with the kick. A song writer/arranger, Hayden Thorpe just synced the bass with the programmed drum part.

 
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#24
Several years back I developed an approach that I think works well.

I'd pull up a drum loop, something simple and play a straight forward bass line.

Recording yourself is always a good idea with this kinda stuff, for independent verification.

Practice playing (what feels to you) as dead on the beat for a while, REALLY focusing on how that feels.

The play the line and rush it, make a deliberate effort to play on top and rush. Again REALLY pay attention to how this feels.

Do the same thing, but drag. Play very behind the beat, again following the same procedure.

Check yourself with the recording. See how accurate your feelings are.

What I discovered long ago was that if I play what feels (to me) to be dead-on, I was in fact slightly on top of the beat.

Conversely if I played what felt (again to me) slightly behind the beat I was actually right on the beat.

So I adjusted my perception and approach to play slightly behind and it worked well, eventually feeling normal to me. I can hear in recordings of myself from say 20 years ago that I played much more on top than I do now.

Dunno if this helps but there it is.
 
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#25
(Nothing to do with Jazz Drumming, or Free Jazz)

The drum player must have a pre-set drum pattern known to the rhythm group members!
The drum player must follow that pre-set drum pattern.

Marcus Willett said:
What I discovered long ago was that if I play what feels (to me) to be dead-on, I was in fact slightly on top of the beat.

Conversely if I played what felt (again to me) slightly behind the beat I was actually right on the beat.
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Generically-speaking, RUSHING is the biggest problem for new musicians/bass players.

Marcus Willett said:
The play the line and rush it....Do the same thing, but drag. Play very behind the beat, again following the same procedure.
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Being able to play the line and rush it, and play the same line, and drag it - it is a sign of an experienced bass player.
In my musical world, that ability to "mimic", "morph" a bass line in terms Tempo, Rhythm, Dynamics, Mood, Character - is a sign of a VERY advanced musician/bass player.

Marcus Willett said:
Practice playing (what feels to you) as dead on the beat for a while, REALLY focusing on how that feels.
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Playing with a drum loop allows you, as a bass player to "manipulate"/morph the timing position of your bass articulation, but what if the live drum player wants to do the same?
 
#26
Whousedtoplay said:
Playing with a drum loop allows you, as a bass player to "manipulate"/morph the timing position of your bass articulation, but what if the live drum player wants to do the same?
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A huge part of being a musician is the ability to adapt. My earlier post was a practice regimen to develop skills, adaptation is also a skill that must be developed but it usually can only be developed in a live situation… IOW, experience.
 
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#28
Whousedtoplay said:
It's what I call, "flexible adjustability". Playing/practicing with a metronome helps refine one's "timing adjustability". Understanding standard notation also helps a lot.
There are several parts of that adjustability besides timing - Mood, Character, Tempo, Dynamics, Articulation, etc...
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Absolutely, but since the original question was about a timing issue that's what I addressed. But yes a musician needs to be fully aware of what they are playing, what is going on around him, and possess the ability to adapt as the situation warrants.

As an example to apply my earlier post, getting accustomed to how it feels to play behind the beat comes in handy when the drummer (as is most people's tendency) rushes. If you are aware of this, and know what it feels like to play behind, you can often reign him in if need be.

EDITED FOR POOR VOICE TO TEXT
 
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#29
There are some excellent recommendations here for practicing on your own, but they won't do you any good in this situation.

There is absolutely zero chance of locking in with a drummer if you can't hear the kick drum. None. You need to fix that. Get the band to turn down, mic the kick, do something. Otherwise what's the point of even having a drummer?
 
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#30
In addition to all the other good advice here, I will add: jam with your drummer. Spend more time playing with him, in and out of rehearsal. All of the technical approaches in the world can't replace the intuitive connection you make with your drummer, and that only comes with time and experience.

Experienced players can click right away because they are good at telegraphing and picking up on tendencies. Whether you can explain it or not, your musical brain will pick up on whether his fills are in time, whether his kick is ahead or behind the beat, and how his snare lands. With time.
 
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#31
mambo4 said:
Learn the drum part. Sit down at the kit,, have him show you what he is doing. When you know exactly what the drum part is, your bass line will be much tighter.
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This is important. Knowing the drum part will help you to design a line that works with it, rather than over it or against it. However, you also have to be able to hear the drum part - if you improvise or go off-piste, then you rely primarily on hearing and feeling the drumbeat. Discuss this with the drummer, as you need to work together to mutual benefit. If the drummer thinks he can just turn up and play, he's doing half a job. The volume may be an issue, so you need to work together to find a solution that really lets you hear each other. Remember, loud bands aren't better. Practicing with a metronome isn't going to fix the issue, mainly because most drummers aren't metronomic.

Also, remember to set the stage up so that you can see the durmmer. Make eye contact and anticipate.
 
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#34
Marcus Willett said:
Absolutely, but since the original question was about a timing issue that's what I addressed. But yes a musician needs to be fully aware of what they are playing, what is going on around him, and possess the ability to adapt as the situation warrants.

As an example to apply my earlier post, getting accustomed to how it feels to play behind the beat comes in handy when the drummer (as is most people's tendency) rushes. If you are aware of this, and know what it feels like to play behind, you can often reign him in if need be.

EDITED FOR POOR VOICE TO TEXT
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You dont have to type your reply in?
 
#36
Wissen said:
jam with your drummer. Spend more time playing with him, in and out of rehearsal. All of the technical approaches in the world can't replace the intuitive connection you make with your drummer, and that only comes with time and experience.
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