Looking for a fretless 6

[IronSpatula]

All right! I took the D'Addario XL nickel untapered .135 off my Fender and threw it on the BB76. First of all, it did NOT fit in the saddle. It hung on the sides of the groove, and I could see empty space underneath it! That's not good. But...

In piezo mode, there was NO difference in response compared to the other strings. In fact, the .135 sounded better than the .128 because it was closer to the other strings in tension than the Carvin B. Good to know!

Shows me for believing other bassists on the internet... Good on you for not doing the same!

However, the non tapered string made the action much higher. Because of this there was actually a big drop-off on the magnetic side of the pre. Might be looking into, although it looked like the string height on your bass was even enough in the pics.

Anyway, good luck! Hope I've offered some help and not just confusion!

 

[GeoffByrne]

I can't believe you guys went through 3 pages of this without mentioning the Yamaha TRB series.

OP, I hope your bass works out.

G.

 

[ddhm]

@ Iron
Man, you wanted to know, didn't cha? I'll be honest, I did too. I just wasn't in a position to test it. Thanks so much. It's odd, I used to use (and greatly prefer) taper core strings. Now that I think about it, I have no idea how I switched back to non taper core.

It's very interesting that the .135 sounded better. That's something that I'll have to think about. At least you got some hard data for your efforts

You've been more than helpful. Any man that will yank a string off his bass and not threaten to strangle me with it is cool in my book.

The height of the strings on my bass was... well, let's say it left a LOT to be desired. There are a few things to go before that issue is addressed.

@Geoff
Thankee for both the suggestion and the well-wishing. I hope so too. I have confidence that my luthier will have everything as right as rain soon.

 

[ddhm]

Tiny update:
The seller has agreed to pay for the repairs on the instrument. WEWT! I'll pay for the pick up bezel mind you. I knew about that situation before I got into this. Luckily, my luthier found his ebony scraps hehe.

I guess it's time to start amp shopping I saw a GB 9.0 fer sale for a good price here on TB... might have to jump on that one. The old 800 RB has seen it's day I think. That's another thread though, isn't it?

 

[unclejane]

Tiny update:
The seller has agreed to pay for the repairs on the instrument. WEWT! I'll pay for the pick up bezel mind you. I knew about that situation before I got into this. Luckily, my luthier found his ebony scraps hehe.

I guess it's time to start amp shopping I saw a GB 9.0 fer sale for a good price here on TB... might have to jump on that one. The old 800 RB has seen it's day I think. That's another thread though, isn't it?

It should sound fine through basically any amp. I use a Roland practice amp and my iPhone against the grill for all my "recording", if you can call it that, lol, and my bunnies sound nice and clear.
They sound very velvety and jazzy through my GK gig-rig also (which is an accomplishment with a GK, normally a very trebly, slightly pinched sounding amp).
So the idea there is you can get basically whatever you want amp-wise, and you should still have a quite good experience.

As for the bridge, both my bunnies have the bottoming-out-saddle situation too, as do, well, probably most mass produced fretlesses. My G&L has it and so did all my previous FL basses.

On mine, without tapercore strings, the saddles are virtually sitting on the bridge plate with the action just about right. It's worse on the 4 string, where all 4 are completely bottomed out, but there's a .5 mm here and there under a couple of the saddles on the 6 string.

So that doesn't indicate a problem, that's how they are originally (and of course taperwounds is a good fix for that for the lower strings).

LS

 

[Nephilymbass]

I think the best option to do it cheap is to get an ibanez btb and have it professionally converted to fretless. Could stay well under a grand.

Why so big on 35 inch scale? I'm not totally against them but from my experience anything over 34" makes the higher strings (D,G,C) sound really pinging and thin. Majority of the players I know that use 35 play detuned 4 strings and that's understandable but there's a reason why a lot of erb players like fanned fret basses. 34 is a good compromise.

 

[ddhm]

@ Unclejane
Wow, really? I mean, I don't doubt you at all (don't get me wrong)... just seems strange that they would limit the adjustment so severely. It just doesn't leave much room for adjustment. I suppose that so long as it's within tolerances, it's all good though.

My luthier will certainly attempt to straighten everything out before he goes to routing. We must think that the instrument being so "out" would make all the angles look strange. I'm sure that my guy will do the same. All that aside, it's still very far from playable and "functioning as intended".

@Neph
Thanks for the thought. I was going to think about the Ibanez stuff next round if the Carvin didn't work out. So far, the Carvin is going to work out I suppose I should say that we're making sure that the Carvin works out.

I prefer the feel of the 35 inch scale. I've been playing that scale for about 10 years now, so familiarity is a big part. As I mentioned before, I also like the tension of the low b and overall. I'd have to disagree about the tonality of the higher strings but to each their own. All in all, it's what I like.

 

[unclejane]

@ Unclejane
Wow, really? I mean, I don't doubt you at all (don't get me wrong)... just seems strange that they would limit the adjustment so severely. It just doesn't leave much room for adjustment. I suppose that so long as it's within tolerances, it's all good though.

My luthier will certainly attempt to straighten everything out before he goes to routing. We must think that the instrument being so "out" would make all the angles look strange. I'm sure that my guy will do the same. All that aside, it's still very far from playable and "functioning as intended".

I still don't see anything visibly messed up with your bridge, eyeballing it in the picture you just posted to the other thread. It looks fine to me - what does your tech say is wrong with it and what's he proposing to do?

Carvin, like most manufacturers, optimizes their designs for the fretted models. They tend not to have extra tooling, etc., specifically for the fretless models as a matter of economics - the FL's are generally just the fretted model with an FL board on it.

So the fingerboard height above the body, etc., usually favors having frets on the board. When the frets aren't there, it's not uncommon for the saddles on the bridge to bottom completely out and in some cases you can't actually get the action down any further without grinding or cutting things on the bridge, etc.

Carvin is much better than most, tho. And taperwound strings usually allows getting the action low enough....

LS

 

[IronSpatula]

So the fingerboard height above the body, etc., usually favors having frets on the board. When the frets aren't there, it's not uncommon for the saddles on the bridge to bottom completely out and in some cases you can't actually get the action down any further without grinding or cutting things on the bridge, etc.

I hadn't really thought about this before, but it makes sense. It's kind of a shame though, since ironically setup is a much larger tonal factor on a fretless!

And taperwound strings usually allows getting the action low enough...

+1. I've got adjustment room to spare on my BB with taperwound strings and the exact same bridge. I don't think there's a big difference between BB and XB in regard to the fingerboard height relative to the body either.

 

[ddhm]

@ Unclejane
My tech was concerned with the bridge height mostly. That was upon his first visual inspection. He has the instrument and will get back to me when it's been properly looked over. Unfortunately for me, he is in very high demand. I do however know that he's taken it home to give it a little extra personal love. I'm certain that he will try to get everything right without doing any routing (which was his initial thought of how to fix it).

If taper cores become a necessity, then that's what it will be. If routing is the necessity, it is what it is. I trust my tech... been dealing with him for decades (and have always been happy).

I'll tell ya this much: My G.A.S. is worse now than when this started lol.

 

[ddhm]

Dang, I can't believe that i forgot to update this post... I suppose I was so excited about having the bass that it just slipped my mind.

The Carvin has returned from the shop. The action was silly high with the bridge bottomed out and it had to be routed out. The break angle was indeed incorrect and that's what it took to get the low B piezo to work. The board was also leveled and is wonderful now.

After I got it back, I opened the control cavity to have a look at it and the pot for the high decided to fall apart right about then. Luckily, I already had my Demeter in hand. I'd never done a pre amp swap and I'll say it was quite an adventure. The Carvin J was out of phase when I'd finished and VERY noisy. I corrected the phase issue but still wasn't quite happy with the result. I also had a Bassline J laying around so I changed that too. Amazingly enough, everything worked. I did (for the time being) have to sacrifice the piezos but I really didn't care for them anyways. I'm hunting out a buffer for them now but I'm also thinking about just making that drive a midi something via a 13 pin or whatever.

There are a couple of other issues that I've found along the way. It appears that this is NOT a 24 fret neck and that the markers are VERY wrong being marked for 24 frets. My 24th fret harmonic is somewhere over the J pick up. Now, how in the heck does THAT happen? I'm starting to believe that this was a scratch and dent bass or it's not an XB. It certainly seemed to measure close enough to the 35.25 but the fretboard markers don't agree. I'm totally puzzled with that part. I'll probably just have the markers moved and perhaps some 1/4 markers added to the fretboard on the high frets of the treble side. In the mean time, a silver and a black sharpie (to cover the old markers) will suffice for markers.

All in all, I kinda wish I'd not bought this one. It's been a lot more work that I should have had to put in and a lot more $ too. It will be great when all is said and done but owch. I'll never buy a used fretless bass from anyone that isn't a good fretless player again. It's obvious that many stores (and individuals) have no idea what a fretless is supposed to be or are willing to blatantly lie about it.

Not to knock Carvin but I'll also not get another Carvin fretless either. They don't at all retool for fretless and I'm here to tell ya: leaving the frets off a fretboard does not a fretless make.

 

[tylerwylie]

Dang, I can't believe that i forgot to update this post... I suppose I was so excited about having the bass that it just slipped my mind.

The Carvin has returned from the shop. The action was silly high with the bridge bottomed out and it had to be routed out. The break angle was indeed incorrect and that's what it took to get the low B piezo to work. The board was also leveled and is wonderful now.

After I got it back, I opened the control cavity to have a look at it and the pot for the high decided to fall apart right about then. Luckily, I already had my Demeter in hand. I'd never done a pre amp swap and I'll say it was quite an adventure. The Carvin J was out of phase when I'd finished and VERY noisy. I corrected the phase issue but still wasn't quite happy with the result. I also had a Bassline J laying around so I changed that too. Amazingly enough, everything worked. I did (for the time being) have to sacrifice the piezos but I really didn't care for them anyways. I'm hunting out a buffer for them now but I'm also thinking about just making that drive a midi something via a 13 pin or whatever.

There are a couple of other issues that I've found along the way. It appears that this is NOT a 24 fret neck and that the markers are VERY wrong being marked for 24 frets. My 24th fret harmonic is somewhere over the J pick up. Now, how in the heck does THAT happen? I'm starting to believe that this was a scratch and dent bass or it's not an XB. It certainly seemed to measure close enough to the 35.25 but the fretboard markers don't agree. I'm totally puzzled with that part. I'll probably just have the markers moved and perhaps some 1/4 markers added to the fretboard on the high frets of the treble side. In the mean time, a silver and a black sharpie (to cover the old markers) will suffice for markers.

All in all, I kinda wish I'd not bought this one. It's been a lot more work that I should have had to put in and a lot more $ too. It will be great when all is said and done but owch. I'll never buy a used fretless bass from anyone that isn't a good fretless player again. It's obvious that many stores (and individuals) have no idea what a fretless is supposed to be or are willing to blatantly lie about it.

Not to knock Carvin but I'll also not get another Carvin fretless either. They don't at all retool for fretless and I'm here to tell ya: leaving the frets off a fretboard does not a fretless make.

If you want a fretless 6 done right, and done how you want it, give Tom Clement a buzz.