I can say a hand made instrument by a single artist is far superior to a mass produced instrument. Just because.
People are better than machines when it comes to a single object.
Unless its me. I suck at making things.
No patience.
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Looking for a little education please....
- Thread starter Fat Ol Bear
- Start date
I can say a hand made instrument by a single artist is far superior to a mass produced instrument. Just because.
People are better than machines when it comes to a single object.
Unless its me. I suck at making things.
No patience.
There are so many bass buying options out there these days, alot of good quality I instruments for little money with good functional hardware, I dont see the reason to polish a turd, look at Squier CV, G&L Tribute, Sterling, Yamaha etc.
Just to expound.
I bought a new mim jazz. After 2 months, the pots stopped doin what pots are supposed to do. Turned the volume pot all the way off, but still had sound. The tune pot had no effect, no matter the position.
Figured I would replace everything with better than or equal to USA made components. Even upgraded the pickups since I was rewiring.
Still did not sound good to my ears.
I sold it at a lose, but the kid that bought it was more than happy to have a good bass.
This bass should have been at least equal to a USA Jazz....it was not.
I have two (or 3) classic production basses people here have lauded as "awesome". However, if I were to purchase another bass, it would most likely be a $299 EBMM Sterling (Sub) bass, with a maple fretboard. I've also been eyeing (and playing) a Squier 70's vibe Thinline Telecaster guitar, with two humbuckers, for only $450. This tells me that in the right hands, the less expensive production instruments can play and sound just as good as much more expensive MIA instruments!
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By far, the main difference in basses OTHER THAN the hardware & electronic items that can be easily replaced, is the neck and fretwork. If you include the entire neck as something you would replace when outfitting a cheap bass with better parts, then you could probably make most cheap basses into fairly high quality basses.
The quality of the truss rod, the way the truss rod is installed, the fret seating / leveling, and the quality of wood, all combine to make a poor, average, good, or exceptional neck.
There are a couple things about about a body that also contribute to quality, mostly the neck pocket width and if the bottom of pocket is parallel to the top plane of the bass, but those can usually be overcome if not too bad.
The best tuners, bridge, pickups, and vol/tone controls can’t make up for a poorly made neck and/or poor fretwork.
My favourite basses are my $4000 Roscoe Century Custom, my $700 Sire M7. Close behind is my $200 Squier Special (Indonesian PJ with a jazz neck) after I levelled the frets. Had I bought the Sire first, I probably wouldn't have spent the money on the Roscoe. Don't get me wrong, the Roscoe is beautiful, but it doesn't play $3300 better than the Sire (which is also beautiful and very well finished - and made in Indonesia).
Electronics and strings are the majority of the tone, wood quality is the majority of the stability of the neck, the body IMO is the least of the tone factors. I had a particle board body bass that sounded great, but the body is the majority of the weight equation, so quality body wood will give you a lighter body for the most part. Quality tuners will give you better tuning stability. Workmanship, primarily on the fretboard and frets will allow lower action and an easier playing instrument. Of all these, I think a quality neck is the most important factor in a great bass. You can level frets and file a nut, but if the neck is like rubber there is no saving that bass unless you swap the neck (assuming it's a bolt on).
I live in Brazil. A new American Fender costs around R$15,000.00. That could be a down payment on a house. I've survived a year paying rent and bills (with roommates in an ok apartment with a nice location) with that kind of money.
So I got a Tagima TW-66 bass for less than a thousand reais, put some EMG GZR pickups I had imported when the dollar and real were closer. The neck was nice, it looks good and now it sounds exactly like I want a P bass to sound.
In my experience you just need a comfortable neck and a the whole thing to stay in tune. Nicer pickups are a fraction of the bass' price and can make a cheaper bass sound like a pro one. If it's comfortable it's easy to fix the sound.
So I got a Tagima TW-66 bass for less than a thousand reais, put some EMG GZR pickups I had imported when the dollar and real were closer. The neck was nice, it looks good and now it sounds exactly like I want a P bass to sound.
In my experience you just need a comfortable neck and a the whole thing to stay in tune. Nicer pickups are a fraction of the bass' price and can make a cheaper bass sound like a pro one. If it's comfortable it's easy to fix the sound.
If the instrument in question is a solid body, then the answer is yes. I have doubts as to whether or not upgraded electronics can overcome any inherent sonic deficiencies in a hollow body. The overall outcome depends on the size of your wallet, but in some instances inexpensive parts render superior results. This is where the guesswork comes in. Simply throwing money at your bass won't make it sound better, and expensive upgrades may actually make it sound worse. For example, you want to have a bit more drive and rumble to your tone, so you buy a vintage Gibson mudbucker for a coupla hundred bucks. You rout out a cavity at the end of the neck pocket of your similar vintage Ric 4001 and install the beast. Much to your chagrin you discover you not only destroyed the collectability value of your Ric, but the added pickup doesn't get along with the stock bridge pickup all that well and has weakened the neck joint where you were overzealous with the router. You could have bought an EB-O and added a DiMarzio Jazz pup in the bridge slot and achieved better results. Now you have a mangled Ric, an extra mudbucker and a low balance in your checking account. When you start mixing and matching on the hollow body platform things get out of hand in a heartbeat and spiral downward at lightning speed. The same mudbucker installed in a Hofner weighs three times as much as the original pickup and after routing, the wood around it begins to buckle. The sound is so unmanageable you can't tame it no matter what. By adding a T Bird pup in the bridge slot you aim to balance things out, but alas, that only ads to the weight and the two pickups sound like garbage when used simultaneously. Desperate for a solution, you wire them in series. The bass spontaneously combusts. Now you have a deep fried mudbucker and T Bird samwich and a pile of expensive short scale ash, not to mention a closed checking account. See? That's why building mutts is such a good idea. You control the expenditure and the quality of parts as well as the time frame and every possible design feature.
That said, a boutique instrument crafted by a meticulous artisan may well be worth five figures. Will it sound as good in the mix as a beat up old P with flats and tort? Who knows? You're paying for the artisan to perform his or her craft and the result of that is what you receive. Is that better than a CNC machined run of the mill (literally) bass? That depends on the individual instruments, what it is you are trying to accomplish musically, and whether or not they inspire you play your best. What matters most is that last part, whether or not they inspire and allow you to play your best. Any instrument should provide you with some amount of playing satisfaction but the really special ones give you a boost that makes you perform at a level that lesser instrument can't. That is the goal, regardless of price. So, after this sermon, you have your answer: maybe.
That said, a boutique instrument crafted by a meticulous artisan may well be worth five figures. Will it sound as good in the mix as a beat up old P with flats and tort? Who knows? You're paying for the artisan to perform his or her craft and the result of that is what you receive. Is that better than a CNC machined run of the mill (literally) bass? That depends on the individual instruments, what it is you are trying to accomplish musically, and whether or not they inspire you play your best. What matters most is that last part, whether or not they inspire and allow you to play your best. Any instrument should provide you with some amount of playing satisfaction but the really special ones give you a boost that makes you perform at a level that lesser instrument can't. That is the goal, regardless of price. So, after this sermon, you have your answer: maybe.
JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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It really depends. I have one high-end production bass that I'll take with me to my grave. I have another in the same model that I have never bonded with. Different woods may or may not be a factor, I just don't know. But the one that's a keeper is a real gem.
I also have a number of very nice, much less expensive basses. Some people would probably pick those up and think they are better than the one I love. It really all depends on what feels right to you. I do know that when I was younger I probably hadn't played enough to know what made an instrument right for me. So there's always the possibility of some of that. But mainly it's just a matter of what speaks to you.
I also have a number of very nice, much less expensive basses. Some people would probably pick those up and think they are better than the one I love. It really all depends on what feels right to you. I do know that when I was younger I probably hadn't played enough to know what made an instrument right for me. So there's always the possibility of some of that. But mainly it's just a matter of what speaks to you.
This has been covered before, but it is all simple economics. A small bass mfr. In New York is going to incur higher expenses to produce, market and sell their basses, ie Fodera then Fend er cranking out the exact same bass. If you are truly interested read a book on economics.
Is the Fodera worth it? Only as long as somebody is wling to pay it. Look at these morons driving the Porsche SUVs and Range Rovers for a similar example in cars.
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Objectively if the listeners hear what you want them to hear, based on what your fingers are doing, then how the sound is made and gets there doesn't really matter. That's assuming some reasonable degree of play-ability. A piece of scrap hardwood with a tensioned string and a used pickup could sound incredible. Maybe. I've seen people up dancing to a guy standing on a wash tub with at 2x2 and a piece of bailing wire, he was good and smiling the whole time.
But of course subjectively, the world doesn't work that way. If you like to tinker, cull something together from the finest parts and call it your own. If not, get something that you already know will be nice.
But of course subjectively, the world doesn't work that way. If you like to tinker, cull something together from the finest parts and call it your own. If not, get something that you already know will be nice.
Morons?
Your statement seems to insinuate same for TBers whom purchase expensive equipment. I see those here at TB whom use High Quality and expensive Bass and Amp's as Intelligent, Successful and Creative. And many non-musicians I know who own nice thing's the same.[like Porsche]
Well at least many of your Brothers on TB now know what you think of them.
But to be honest many of those purchase expensive equipment have already been portrayed as Elitist, Snob's, Delusional ETC.
So my goal is to become a Moronic Elitist Snob based on judgements from many on TB would mean 'to me' I am doing Great
Why is someone who can afford to buy an expensive car a moron? And thank you for the very basic economics lesson.
In other news, a solid body electric bass is a simple thing. Components can usually be replaced if they are lacking, but a bigger issue I think is how they all fit together. It's hard to improve a bass with off center pickup routs, or a neck cavity that wasn't routed correctly, but a lower priced factory or asian shop bass is not much more likely to have those problems than a more expensive custom shop or single-maker instrument in my experience.
At what price point do people become morons? We all need to know where we fit in your little mind.
Okay, I will readily admit that I got much more response to my query than I originally expected. I see that as a good thing. I have read responses that seem to cover every angle of what was on my mind. Thank you. Much to think about. However, call me a glutton for punishment if you will but I'm gonna keep pushing the issue just because I am simply curious.
I just turned 68 and live on my monthly SS check. I purposely did not name the instrument of my lust because I did not want ya'll to make fun of me for being poor. It is a very inexpensive bass. I first fell in love with it from pictures in online music dealer's websites. When I learned the price I was sold. Now it has taken me over three years to save enough to buy it and in that time I have done extensive research and read every review i could find. I am fairly confident that I am making a wise purchase. I may or may not replace parts here and there but should I decide on upgrades I feel that I will have a very good basic platform with which to start.
I played drums professionally for many years and this bass will be my start on a new adventure. Maybe with a lot of blood, sweat, and tears (practice) I may someday reach a level that I may feel going professional again but for now I just want to make music. (Damn that love of music bug that keeps biting and pushing.)
...but I digress.
I'm not advocating grabbing your pocket knife and start whittling on a cheap guitar. However, if you have a comfortable instrument that you love I am saying that a few tweaks might transform an instrument. of low quality into something that even a Moronic Elitist Snob (I believe that was the phrase that was used) might respect. If the neck fits well and the truss rod is doing its job then i feel that a little work on the frets (leveling rounding etc...) and some judicious use of a fine grit sandpaper on the back of the neck would would give you something to be proud of. Yes, I realize that this simplifies what I am trying to say but I feel that it gets the point across.
I am an avid DIYer and can see the endless possibilities.
I just turned 68 and live on my monthly SS check. I purposely did not name the instrument of my lust because I did not want ya'll to make fun of me for being poor. It is a very inexpensive bass. I first fell in love with it from pictures in online music dealer's websites. When I learned the price I was sold. Now it has taken me over three years to save enough to buy it and in that time I have done extensive research and read every review i could find. I am fairly confident that I am making a wise purchase. I may or may not replace parts here and there but should I decide on upgrades I feel that I will have a very good basic platform with which to start.
I played drums professionally for many years and this bass will be my start on a new adventure. Maybe with a lot of blood, sweat, and tears (practice) I may someday reach a level that I may feel going professional again but for now I just want to make music. (Damn that love of music bug that keeps biting and pushing.)
...but I digress.
I'm not advocating grabbing your pocket knife and start whittling on a cheap guitar. However, if you have a comfortable instrument that you love I am saying that a few tweaks might transform an instrument. of low quality into something that even a Moronic Elitist Snob (I believe that was the phrase that was used) might respect. If the neck fits well and the truss rod is doing its job then i feel that a little work on the frets (leveling rounding etc...) and some judicious use of a fine grit sandpaper on the back of the neck would would give you something to be proud of. Yes, I realize that this simplifies what I am trying to say but I feel that it gets the point across.
I am an avid DIYer and can see the endless possibilities.
Hey Fat Ol Bear, F anyone who might make fun of someone for being poor, though I doubt you'd find many, or any, here that would. The world is full of people who will never be rich, or even comfortably well off, despite a lifetime of hard work and effort. Not everyone can be a tech whiz, a plastic surgeon, or heaven forbid a stock trader.....
Enjoy the bass you can afford and play the hell out of it.
Enjoy the bass you can afford and play the hell out of it.
