Looking for a little education please....

[Fat Ol Bear]

Okay, I have finally saved up enough cash to pull the trigger on the bass I fell in love with so long ago. Before I do, I figured ya'll might be able to help be with a question that has been bugging me for a while. Don't worry. Your responses will not/can not have any bearing on my decision. That decision was made in the past. Also, I feel one point needs to be made: I realize that my inquiry comes from a location of pure ignorance so any condescending points of view will not bruise my ego nor hurt my feelings although they will not help in the slightest.

I have always wondered if there is enough difference in quality to demand the extreme high prices of some instruments. I'm no schmo. I realize the difference in workmanship and understand the disdain for stamped tin can bridges and other low quality parts. That is not the issue. Couldn't an average bass be outfitted with better parts and a few tweaks made here and there and be turned into a desirable high quality instrument? The difference in the materials (woods) used can not, in my mind, cause that much of a difference in price. Could it?

 

[Nebadon2000]

Many support that theory
Yes you can change Tuners, Bridge, Pickups, Tone and volume pots, all wiring, fret work etc. but the foundation Quality stays the same along with playability.
Yes a better 'Average' Bass but at some expense and who knows if 'Foundation Quality' allow those upgrades to shine through at maximum benefit.

Just my thinking; also nowadays the 'average' Bass is much better than the past so my thinking may be easily debated.

 

[Skeezix]

yes

 

[jd56hawk]

I think wood can be a very important factor...and even paint...but I won't go into the properties of if it does or does not affect tone.
For example, one bass weighs only 7.3 pounds and the other one is well over 10 pounds.
One bass is swamp ash which can vary greatly in weight...and light weight is definitely an issue for many.
Did the choice of wood used determine the price of each bass?
I seriously doubt it, but obviously exotic woods do demand higher prices.

 

[JRA]

Couldn't an average bass be outfitted with better parts and a few tweaks made here and there and be turned into a desirable high quality instrument?

IME: it depends on a lot of factors, not the least of which is how a particular player defines "high quality." but: the POV your question references is regularly posted on these pages as "parts basses" and "mods/modded basses," etc.

the simple answer = of course! although slapping a bunch of nice parts on some shaped, hunks of wood could be a gamble, using competent parts on player-preferred necks and bodies can yield instruments that are far better than any off-the-rack pieces, at any price. you can peruse some threads that demonstrate exactly this perspective!

i voted "yes" to your question(s) because i have several of those "average" (and in my case: cheap) axes that have been modified to be 'exceptional' for me. i have a few that most players would consider to be very special, indeed.

i have encouraged a number of folks to assemble "the-best-parts-for-you" and build (or have someone else build) a genuine, custom instrument. maybe you'll do the same. good luck!



"high(est) quality" = an instrument built/assembled from player-preferred materials, in a way that enables the player to perform better, and which proves to be reliably better than other choices available for the same purpose, without regard to qualities/features that do not affect performance (e.g., looks/color).

 

[Funk With Me]

When I was touring and gigging like crazy I bought a MIM Jazz Bass because I wanted something that was replaceable if evil was to happen. I upgraded the bridge because the saddles slipped, I had a better nut installed after the plastic one broke, and I put a better looking pick guard on it.

That instrument became a favorite over some that cost more than twice as much.

 

[Nedmundo]

Couldn't an average bass be outfitted with better parts and a few tweaks made here and there and be turned into a desirable high quality instrument?

My equivocal answer: sometimes. It depends how good the bass is at the outset, and which parts you replace.

I don't have lots of experience with this, but I took this approach with a 2010 MIM Fender Jazz that was planned as a backup. I replaced the pickups with Fender USA pickups from my 2003 Am. Series Jazz, and replaced the bridge with a nice Gotoh I had lying around from an earlier project. It also got the sweet tort pickguard from my G&L JB. With those mods, it looked and sounded great, like a more expensive bass.

But none of these mods enhanced the playability, which still wasn't as good as my MIA Fender and G&L basses, and the neck wasn't nearly as rigid as the graphite-reinforced neck on my Fender or the quartersawn beast on my G&L JB. I realized I'd never use it, so I returned it to stock and sold it.

Could I have then replaced the neck with a Warmoth to approximate the overall goodness of the MIA basses? Sure, but at a certain point the additional cost just isn't worth it. At least not to me.

But if finances make it more viable to build a great bass over time, piece by piece, instead of buying a more expensive bass at the outset, then it's a perfectly good approach. Also works if you need to take this approach to get exactly what you want, as I did building a fretless Precision out of MIM and MIA Fender parts. That was a great bass.

 

[RSBBass]

Yes but you have to start with the right bass and "highly desirable" is very subjective. If you mean a bass that plays and sounds as good as a much more expensive bass yes. But, it is unlikely to ever sell for as much as the known good bass. You also have to think of the value of your time. I like working on instruments so that isn't an issue for me, nor is the price of tools. If it is just a way to save money you may not.

Like I said at the beginning, the bass you start with is important. To me the neck is the most important factor. If it isn't pretty good to start with you are either going to have to replace it or do a lot of work. Cleaning up some fret ends, maybe level a couple of frets is fine but more than that and I would look for a different bass. Most tuning keys are pretty decent these days as are most bridges. Most nuts are cut high, even sometimes on expensive basses. Pickups and electronics give you the most bang for your buck. Proper shielding is also cheap and easy. Refinishing a bass is a big deal that often takes a few tries to get right.

 

[shade_1313]

Just my thinking; also nowadays the 'average' Bass is much better than the past so my thinking may be easily debated.

That was one of the changes I noted, and found very interesting, when I came back to Bass last year, after more than a decade away from laying a hand on any of mine. The low-priced “entry level” or budget basses of today are incredibly far ahead of where they were when I first picked up a bass.

 

[Zooberwerx]

Okay, I have finally saved up enough cash to pull the trigger on the bass I fell in love with so long ago. Before I do, I figured ya'll might be able to help be with a question that has been bugging me for a while. Don't worry. Your responses will not/can not have any bearing on my decision. That decision was made in the past. Also, I feel one point needs to be made: I realize that my inquiry comes from a location of pure ignorance so any condescending points of view will not bruise my ego nor hurt my feelings although they will not help in the slightest.

I have always wondered if there is enough difference in quality to demand the extreme high prices of some instruments. I'm no schmo. I realize the difference in workmanship and understand the disdain for stamped tin can bridges and other low quality parts. That is not the issue. Couldn't an average bass be outfitted with better parts and a few tweaks made here and there and be turned into a desirable high quality instrument? The difference in the materials (woods) used can not, in my mind, cause that much of a difference in price. Could it?

What bass did you have in mind?

I'm seeing some perfectly amazing imports as low as $400. True, the hardware may not be top-shelf but will be more than serviceable for the time being. Every manufacturer, domestic or overseas, builds to a price-point and does a pretty good job of it considering modern technology. Now, if you're buying a $400 bass and planning on immediately adding $400 worth of upgrades, I'd raise an eyebrow and suggest you drop the coin ($800) on a higher-tier (...relatively speaking) instrument. Sorry to say, you'll undoubtedly run across deficits irrespective of what you purchase...ask fellow TBer @Killed_by_Death about his never-ending misadventures with Ibanez machine heads. This is where the "Hardware / Repair" forum comes in handy.

Riis

 

[Killed_by_Death]

There are often things you cannot visibly see that make the instrument more valuable, like reinforcements in the neck. I like a stiff neck, so some reinforcement is almost a must-have for me.
OTOH you can buy a pre-owned instrument for $100 USD & throw another $100 in upgrades & have a really great, giggable instrument:

GSR100EX in the sun

• Killed_by_Death
• Jun 26, 2019
• 2
• ibanez

 

[TheReceder]

Personally I'd rank the actual wood of a bass lower on the scale of what's important.
Again... personally... I'd look at it this way.
#1 Electronics are the key to what tone will be transmitted.
#2 Neck (including frets and the nut) playability and stability. If you can't adjust it, or are there are twists and bows that can't be adjusted the bass is a waste of money.
#3 Tuners. What good is a bass that won't hold tune
#4 Strings bad strings make a bad bass much worse
#5 Body, mainly for ergonomics.

I'm one of those rare people that believe that you can put good parts on a 2x4 and get it to sound good. You just won't look cool, and it might not be comfortable to play.

 

[Killing Floor]

The wood, electronics, etc. can obviously affect the tone and feel. But let’s be honest, an artisan sculpting the body with hand tools vs. a CNC tool can produce the exact same physical outcome. There is some esoteric value to the former. But only the buyer can decide that value. Handmade instruments are desirable to me and No Doubt the builders are worth more than they earn. But the magic work doesn’t really change the sound. Is that what you’re asking?

 

[Deleted member 365158]

I cant bring myself to pay a bunch of money for a bass. Im on my 5th or 6th modded bass. All different projects. All to sooth curiosity. Opinions on electronics And hardware we’re driving me nuts so i got over my weariness Of digging in and possibly messing up a perfectly fair instrument. I haven’t had to trash or burn a project yet, some came out better than others but they all play great and have their own unique characteristics.
I would rather buy a $100 bass, spend a couple more on hardware and electronics still come out under $500 and have a quality axe that im happy with. I don’t bother worrying about selling them.. no need.

 

[wraub]

My main bass is a MIJ Squier modded with different bridge, pickups, pickguard and a detuner. The bass is well made and "broken in", it's comfortable to play, not heavy, it is completely unique, and it wasn't expensive. It's now a rival for almost any other bass of it's type for tone and playability.

No shame in starting well and parting right.

 

[MattZilla]

an average bass

The average price is about what a nice used motorcycle goes for...

I guess I don’t understand the question?

 

[Killing Floor]

I think what everyone is telling you is the best bass is the best bass for you.

In my case if the neck feels good I can let almost anything else slide or mod if needed.

 

[StatesideRambler]

The biggest difference between a $500 bass with high end upgrades and a $5,000 bass is in the hands of the musician playing it. The differences are there but they’re subtle enough to demand the discernment that comes of experience and talent. Those of us in the middle of the talent pack will love playing the $$$$$ bass but the distinction will be more in the player’s enjoyment than in the listeners’.

Most of us are quite happy with our middle of the road instruments and if we hit a lotto jackpot we’d build our collections without finding more satisfaction in the playing.

 

[Scott Lynch]

View attachment 4112494

The average price is about what a nice used motorcycle goes for...

I guess I don’t understand the question?

With instruments, value is determined more than just by the sum of the parts. Provenance, for example, matters with fine double basses. That Villaume may be expensive, but look at the prices of some of the most vaunted Italian and English basses of old...

“Extreme high prices” are relative to what one values in an instrument. On one hand, if value is a (or the) primary consideration, the construction processes that make a Squier very affordable will make a significant difference. It comes with limitations, however, like the limited options available. You want a different pickup, or for the neck to be a different spec, or the body a different color, the cost of that instrument goes up, perhaps dramatically, relative to its initial value.

Some of us value things that cannot be scaled in the way modern mass-produced instruments are made, and therefore are willing to pay more. It could be supporting a smaller shop/builder, wanting/needing a specific design for artistic purposes, demanding the highest possible level of QC, buying an instrument from builders paid fair wages (or what one believes is fair), etc... there are many reasons for doing this.

It comes down to personal values/preference and what one can afford.

 

[drumvsbass]

Okay, I have finally saved up enough cash to pull the trigger on the bass I fell in love with so long ago. Before I do, I figured ya'll might be able to help be with a question that has been bugging me for a while. Don't worry. Your responses will not/can not have any bearing on my decision. That decision was made in the past. Also, I feel one point needs to be made: I realize that my inquiry comes from a location of pure ignorance so any condescending points of view will not bruise my ego nor hurt my feelings although they will not help in the slightest.

I have always wondered if there is enough difference in quality to demand the extreme high prices of some instruments. I'm no schmo. I realize the difference in workmanship and understand the disdain for stamped tin can bridges and other low quality parts. That is not the issue. Couldn't an average bass be outfitted with better parts and a few tweaks made here and there and be turned into a desirable high quality instrument? The difference in the materials (woods) used can not, in my mind, cause that much of a difference in price. Could it?

Yes and no. Rule of thumb, if it's a fender shaped object, don't pay more than 1500 bucks for it. And since most boutique basses are really just fancy fenders... you get the point. However, there are many builders that are doing different things with different materials that end up with a higher price tag (carbon fiber neck, custom electronics or pickups, special build features) that are worth the extra $$$. How much extra depends on how much you wanna spend as there is no ceiling there. When I had the $$$ to spend and the research done, I had no problem dropping the $$$ on a Zon. But if it's just a really nice Pbass that you're looking for, don't spend more than a grand.