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Looking for Monitor EQ tips

Harper

Harper

Nov 10, 2001
1,262
2,231
#1
I play in a 3 piece rock band (bass, guitar, drums, all of us sing lead and BG) that plays small to mid size bars/venues.

We've got a great PA...probably overkill for a lot of the places we play but it does sound great. Having said that we're far from being a "kill em with volume" band; the guitarist and I play through combos and the drummer isn't trying to wake up John Bonham on every song.

Anywho, point of my story is that our monitors are never quite there. We have 4 separate mixes on stage, and try to stick to just vocals. We run about 2000 watts through 4 Yamaha 1x15 plus horn wedges, so you wouldn't think we'd have a problem hearing ourselves.

But we do.

I'm thinking EQ may be our problem. I know every band/room/song/etc. is different but if anyone could at least throw some basics or a starting point at me it would be much appreciated.
 
#3
Try using two of the wedges as sidefills (monitors behind the mains raised to 5-6 feet above the floor, pointing to the center of the stage), plus one wedge each for the drummer and vocalist. I've always preferred this setup, it evens out the stage sound a lot.

So you only run vocals in the monitors? I'd suggest adding a little guitar and perhaps bass too (it depends on your rig size) in them as well, to even out things.

As for eq - it's very difficult to say what should be adjusted when I don't know how your monitors sound. If you have problems with feedback through the vocal mic, that can be dealt with by cutting treble in the range 2,5 - 5 kHz, but unless you have these problems you don't need to do that. If the vocals are muddy, try cutting slightly in the range 200-500 Hz.

For overall monitor eq-ing, put on a CD you know well, and adjust the eq so you hear all frequencies well enough and the vocals clearly. Work from there then.
 
#4
Ideally, every mix on stage should have its own 1/3 octave eq. In the real world, no two wedges work/sound exaclty alike, as do mic's. Even the same brand/model. Every mix on stage should be treated as its own entity. Typically, monitors are run seperatly from FOH, so you go through a process called "ringing out" the monitors, to get highest gain before feedback, to get your monitors where you CAN hear them. If you run them from FOH, insert the eq's or plug them inline with the aux sends from your console, and get them so that feedback is minimized or reduced to the point that you can use them. Mic selection also makes a difference as to how loud you can get monitors. IME, Audix (no affilation) can get the highest gain before feedback. Also, (in my best Sara Palin voice) adding more things to the monitor mixes is bad. Less is more IMHO. Mix into monitors only what is absoluty required.
You might want to hire in a sound guy to help you acheive these goals, a least once, maybe that will help.
Good luck.
 
#5
GregShadoan said:
Ideally, every mix on stage should have its own 1/3 octave eq. In the real world, no two wedges work/sound exaclty alike, as do mic's. Even the same brand/model. Every mix on stage should be treated as its own entity. Typically, monitors are run seperatly from FOH, so you go through a process called "ringing out" the monitors, to get highest gain before feedback, to get your monitors where you CAN hear them. If you run them from FOH, insert the eq's or plug them inline with the aux sends from your console, and get them so that feedback is minimized or reduced to the point that you can use them. Mic selection also makes a difference as to how loud you can get monitors. IME, Audix (no affilation) can get the highest gain before feedback. Also, (in my best Sara Palin voice) adding more things to the monitor mixes is bad. Less is more IMHO. Mix into monitors only what is absoluty required.
You might want to hire in a sound guy to help you acheive these goals, a least once, maybe that will help.
Good luck.
Click to expand...

Here is a typical medium sized monitor world.
http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t262/gshadoan/Monitorworld.jpg
 
#6
Thanks for the feedback.

We do have a soundguy, but we all do our part in setting up the sound and we're not afraid to put our .02 cents in when it comes to the "tech" end of things.
 
#8
I'd call them "low-cut" buttons, but anyway..

How do you ring the monitors out? Is it just amp vol up to feedback level, adjust EQ to eliminate the feedback, raise the volume again, adjust EQ etc...? I've never done that, never had severe feedback problems I couldn't cope with using a lower volume or another mic - monitor angle. I also appreciate a natural sound in the monitors over an increased feedback resistance. However, I guess it's an important procedure on bigger stages with large PA's.
 
#9
I find that most mixes I get out of wedge monitors have way too much midrange, and not enough bottom. I suppose that's understandable given most wedges are built/tuned for vocalists. It gets worse when there is a lot of electric guitar and/or keyboard fed through them. Usually when I have the opportunity to have a seperate monitor mix and have it EQ'd, I'm having them scoop out the mids. There is enough of that coming from the guitar/keyboard amps onstage and other band members' monitors already.
 
#10
Variable (sweepable) High Pass filters (low freq cutting) can be a sound persons best freind. I use them allot. I typically high pass monitor mixes to about 80Hz, and sweep vocals up to 200Hz in monitors. Low freq's can cause speaker damage, by over excurting the low drivers. Side fills and drum fills with subs are different than vocal wedges. Most of the vocal range is from about 400 to around 2.5 Khz, with S sounds making it into the 5K range, and some boomier type vocal sounds making its way down to say 160-200 hz range. Mid sounding monitors are really what can cut through stage noise, (loud guitars/keys/etc..) allowing the vocalist to hear what they are doing. It is difficult to make monitor systems sound "hi-fi" or full range, as they really dont lend them selves to that very well. Thats a FOH thing :-), When you get into the higher end monitor systems they do sound more "hi-fi", but they are still used primarily in the afore mentioned application. The more money you throw at an audio product, the better it will sound. Even the Clair AM monitors (very high end), do best as a mid range high output device. The sound (hifi or not) really more or less depends on stage volume, and how loud they(monitors) need to be. Lower stage volumes lend themselves to better full range (hi-fi-ish) sound. YMMV.
 
#12
Ringing out with an open stage (turning the level up until it rings, then EQing the ring away) gets few if any of the frequencies that will feed back when a hand, face, open mouth, or reflective instrument top (or even a hat brim) are in front of the mic. Even once you seem to be done, when soundcheck starts you may get additional "hot" or "loose" (not feeding back, but trying to) frequencies that need attention. (Always end the soundcheck a little loud, to hunt for such spots.)
 
#13
Yes, Ringing out monitors is a 2 person job. One with ear plugs at the mic, the other nut at the wheel. It should only take once. YMMV. Every situation is different. Is the mic in a fixed position? What type mic (very important)? Does the singer wear a hat (yes a brim will affect it)? etc..
 

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