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Looking for new PA

M

moten33

Jan 7, 2012
204
12
Albion, NY
#1
Hey Eeveryone,

I am looking for a new PA for our band on a budget. I have speakers in mind (750w RMS at 8 ohms). Plan to buy some monitors to daisy chain and make the load 4 ohms per side. We have an outdoor gig at the end of them onth and possibly a small festival outdoors next month so the llouder the better while trying to keep the price down. Planning to just run vocals through it but if we can run other stuff that would be great. What suggestions do you have for either a powered mixer or a power amp and mixer that will keep my costs down and do what we need? Thanks.
 
#2
Budget depending, new or used Yamaha eMX-5000 series. Built like tanks, good power 500 as side into 4 ohms and very flexible io. I've run mine with passive tops and monitors or for larger stuff active tops and power amp driving a sub off the main L/R out, then used the on board power to drive 2 monitor mixes. Also has a mono out with lpf for driving a sub system with no other crossover. (Not an ideal scenario but, If you're out front mixing, it can be done pretty easily. 2 on board effects engines, 2 sends per channel. 2 aux mixes. Sweepable mid on the first 8 channels. Used market in VGC betweem 400 and 450.

My older EMX 5000/12 has been a trooper.
 
#3
Do you think 500w per side is enough to play outdoors? I have no experience with playing outdoors and have been reading the horror stories online and the rigst hat people have (4+ 18' subs, 6+ 15"mains, multiple power amps) and am wondering if my two 750rms cabs will be enough to handle it or if I should be getting more cabs instead of monitors and a higher wattage power amp. Things I have read say you can't really hear monitors outside anyways. Does this sound right?
 
#4
moten33 said:
Do you think 500w per side is enough to play outdoors? I have no experience with playing outdoors and have been reading the horror stories online and the rigst hat people have (4+ 18' subs, 6+ 15"mains, multiple power amps) and am wondering if my two 750rms cabs will be enough to handle it or if I should be getting more cabs instead of monitors and a higher wattage power amp. Things I have read say you can't really hear monitors outside anyways. Does this sound right?
Click to expand...

Ummm, no....in fact monitors are even more important outside if you want your vocalists to have any chance of hearing what they are doing. Inside (in a lively room), you tend to get more spill back onstage from FOH speakers, whereas outdoors the sound is not doing so. I'd be interested in knowing what 750rms tops (8ohms) you have. That kind of power does NOT usually happen in the low dollar category you seem to be shopping in. I'd bet they are nowhere near handling that kind of power. So before anybody can offer truly good advice, it would be good to know music style, crowd size, and what these speakers are you already have.
 
#5
We play classic/modern rock (everything from Barenaked Ladies to Sabbath). The first gig is a private party, large backyard, probably 50 or so people, nothing huge. The festival (if we get it) would be in the food court which is a shut off side street in town, probably a few hundred people. That didn't sound right about the monitors but I saw at least three different threads on other sites that said the same thing. These are the speakers I currently have (I know Pyle is usually junk but these are surprisingly decent, even for vocals and for the price, can't beat it. Frequency range and sensitivity compares favorably to the Peavey 2x12 cabinets):

http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PADH212-Speaker-Construction-Reinforced/dp/B0013C7ICC/ref=pd_cp_MI_0
 
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#6
The Yamaha EMX series is good.

I like the Mackie CFX series better.

Small / medium format analog boards that really go a good job of running a full mix are hard to come by.
 
#7
Well, regardless of my personal opinion of Pyle...those should be ok for vocals/guitars/keys/whatever. Don't expect them to do something like massive kick drum or bass, and they can work. Forgot to ask what your budget is like, but going on cheap/decent...try to shop used, you'll get far better equipment for your money. Look for an older Mackie/Yamaha/Soundcraft mixer. There's tons of older QSC RMX power amps floating aroudn the used market. They are great, reliable products that can take a beating.
 
#8
Depends on the budget. If I can get credit/installments probably up to $1000. If I am paying out of pocket probably up to $600/$700 range. I guess I am wondering now what kind of wattage I will need for outdoors and if I should add more cabs as well or stick with these and focus on the mixer/amp.
 
#11
There are a lot of variables when asking this PA question.

I generally play small to medium sized gigs. I use a Yamaha EMX512SC and it covers most situations.

We run vocals only into the PA and sometimes a little kick drum.

I have several ways I can go with the speakers. I have four of the Yamaha SM12V monitor cabs and two of the S15V mains cabs. I can only run four of these cabs with the Yamaha head but if I need to run another set I use my backup/second Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0 head as an additional power amp for the mains cabs.

Most gigs two of the 12 monitor cabs will do with them tucked behind the band and I just up size depending on the gig size. Yes there is a limit to this but you can start in the neighborhood and add pieces as you go. One of the nice things about the 512 is the ability to switch it from dual amps for mains or one for mains and one for monitors and still be able to use the monitor section if used with a separate power amp.

The Yamaha EMX5016 and or 5014 are indeed nicer if you can afford them.

Look for used gear to help save money but investigate before purchasing.
 
#13
The key is to accept that very few systems under 20 grand or so are going to be able to do a 'monster sound' outside. I've done some outside shows with my Yamaha driving passive tops off one side of the amp and passive montiors off the other and for vocals and acoustic guitars in a classic rock context it worked fine. You simply have to work within the limitations of your budget and system and make it work. It really isn't that hard - if the guys you are playing with remember that this is a team sports and they have to control their volume so as not to overwhelm the vocals.

Mackie CFX mixers... Great feature set for the dollar but sound quality wise the preamps are lacking. IMO not in the same league as the Yamaha. The Emx 5000/12 is more on par with the Mackie VLZ-Pro boards which are a big step up from the CFX level boards.

Doing a decent sounding PA under a grand is not going to be easy. To my way of thinkimg 1800 maybe 2000 is about entry level for a small club PA that will sound good and be reliable.

I'm in around 3x that in my current system and consider it adequate. I'll rent additional powered subs for a couple of outside gig's this summer... And I'll still be working with some limitations...
 

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