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Loud and Ampeg.... not looking good

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#41
It's ironic that Peavey has it's new U.S. made all tube head bad boy going for $899.99 after he got frustrated trying to secure a deal to have it made in China. Ashdown is now making it's classic line in the U.S. for the production they want to sell here. I'd be happy if someone like Hartley Peavey were to buy Ampeg and bring it back to the U.S.

He'd understand the legend and mystique of the name, as much as he did by making sure the new Trace Elliott under his ownership would be made in England in hope of reviving it's short lived proud name before Gibson nearly killed it.

I have a feeling that the LOUD years will be another hiccup in the rather colorful and far from boring history of the Ampeg name. It may be a cloudy chapter, but for Ampeg I have to believe the name will find a brighter day.
 
#42
GeneralElectric said:
At least in my opinion and experience, musicians think that gear made in the USA is at the top of the heap.
Click to expand...

Why should they? My bass is made in Spain, and my amps in Italy and The Netherlands. My cabs in the USA, though the new Epifani cabs are made in China. I make my pedals in the USA, but the economics make more sense for a small operation like mine.

Let's look at an example of a successful outsourcing. EBS has product lines that are made in China, and they are top quality. "Made in China" doesn't inherently make something worse. The factories will build to your specifications and tolerances. In LOUD's case, the economics were better for them to move production overseas. If Ampeg's quality has suffered because of it (and I've actually heard the opposite) then it is because of poor management on LOUD's part.

I'm not saying that I like it when US companies outsource, but sometimes it's the only way to keep a brand afloat.
 
#48
Maybe I need to go back and read all the threads, but I think the majority of this IS about Ampeg and how LOUD is ruining it. It's not politics, it's a fact that the factories (in China) aren't making their products. For whatever reason. Sure, lots of quality products come out of China, and some real junk. Is it to the point that we can't even state the obvious?

LOUD sucks. Made in________
 
#49
Kelly Lee said:
I completely agree.

Get this thread back on topic or it will be locked.
Click to expand...

I hope this is OK, but I just have to jump in here. I have been in the MI industry for nearly 20 years and have been a bass player for quite a bit longer. I have been both a buyer and seller of bass gear and know a bit about LOUD and AMPEG. I worked for LOUD for exactly six months after the buyout, then left.

In my 16 years at SLM a big part of my responsibility was to evaluate ALL of our competitors products. We produced lots of great products and won tons of industry awards.

In my several years with GC, this has continued. We see everything that anyone in the world has to offer at NAMM, Frankfurt and other trade shows throughout the world.

In my opinion, the country of origin has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with product quality. I have seen a lot of great products and junk coming out of the same country, sometimes out of the same factory.

Product quality has to do with great engineering, competant manufacturing, effective quality control, and last, but certainly not least, good packaging to protect the product during shipment. The brand holder is completely in charge of what and how the factories produce.

If, on the other hand, you are constantly pushing factories ANYWHERE to cut corners, build in shorter time frames, or de-emphasize QC no matter where the factory is, product quality will suffer. There is public information that LOUD is struggling financially, and sometimes this can create additional problems as well.

However, if LOUD has made the decision to insist on the best engineering and designs, and high quality components, thorough QC and testing and puts the appropriate money into packaging, there is absolutely no reason that AMPEG products should suffer in any way. No matter where the factory is located. Period.

If this has not been the case, or is not the case, it will show up quickly in the product. There are those on both sides of this issue on the forum. Some still love new Ampeg products, others want to throw rocks at them.

For now the future of AMPEG is in LOUD's hands. But, if LOUD goes away, AMPEG will certainly go on. It is an extremely powerful brand and has been through difficulties before.

AMPEG amps should be "uncommonly good...wherever they come from". If not, don't blame the factories or the countries of origin.
 
#50
I agree Stacknob, that a quality product can be made around the globe. I don't think we're China bashing here. The issue is Ampeg quality and service.
I've been using Ampeg products a long time. My last purchase was an SVP-CL. It didn't work right. The local music store I deal with never could get a replacement. They finally, after months of dealing with LOUD, gave me a refund, and dropped Ampeg. They had been an Ampeg dealer for decades, had a great relationship with SLM, but when LOUD took over they axed the service rep and things went downhill. They picked up Mesa Boogie, and life moves on.

"If, on the other hand, you are constantly pushing factories ANYWHERE to cut corners, build in shorter time frames, or de-emphasize QC no matter where the factory is, product quality will suffer. There is public information that LOUD is struggling financially, and sometimes this can create additional problems as well.

However, if LOUD has made the decision to insist on the best engineering and designs, and high quality components, thorough QC and testing and puts the appropriate money into packaging, there is absolutely no reason that AMPEG products should suffer in any way. No matter where the factory is located. Period.

If this has not been the case, or is not the case, it will show up quickly in the product. There are those on both sides of this issue on the forum. Some still love new Ampeg products, others want to throw rocks at them."

This is exactly what we're discussing. I think those of us on our side of the issue should be allowed to throw rocks without the threat of the lock or ban.
Thanks.
 
#51
Stacknobuser is of course right on.

In china, specifically, they were casting iron back when the ancestors of the rest of us were basically swinging from the trees.

There is every reason to think they are capable of making very good products.

Why does this often NOT happen?

Because:

1) as noted, companies shop around for the cheapest contract manufacturer. This has two problems.

First, doing business in Asia means building a relationship. Often a nominal amount of stock is exchanged, which then makes you 'partners", with a stake in each other's success.

Shopping for price is the opposite, it shows you have no respect for anyone, not even your customers. Therefore, the vendor also feels no responsibility to you either, and will do the nominally required job, and no more.

Second, you will end up at the company that has the freshest set of rubes from the sticks, who will work the cheapest, because they know nothing, have no skills, and are worth less as workers. Small wonder if QC stinks in that sort of company.

2) Companies press all the time for cheaper prices..... Again, this shows where your priorities are, and the contract manufacturer will oblige by cutting parts costs with inferior parts, or skipping tests, etc. After all, you asked them to do that.
 
#53
+1 exactly!!!!! I, myself have NO problem WHERE a product is made-as long as it's made well & -in my case- built to last! I'm NOT one of these ppl who buy something & expect it to break in -say 5 yrs & so "upgrade" to the newer model. I'm the sort who would MUCH rather buy sumthin made well, & to last & I'll KEEP that model for as long as possible & take it BACK to the seller for services & parts as they're needed. Sadly, it seems the world is gearing towards the former way of thinking/building..... i.e. cars that are made to last 10 yrs etc..... Again- I'd RATHER buy a car & KEEP IT for 30+ yrs using the original seller & original maker's parts to keep it running as it should be.
Back to AMPEG. I Sincerely HOPE they decide to take this reliabilty & quality over a "fast buck" & build quality products that are built to last-as in the old SVT's (& hopefully the newer SVT-VR's also) - therein reclaiming their good or GREAT name with quality products that are reliable & that ppl are proud to own & keep for yrs.
I know that I'm damn proud to own my SVTII & V4BH, I consider 'em to be great amps, & they -seem- to be made to last-be worked on, fixed & seviced to last for another 5 yrs til the next service etc..
We had our work Xmas dinner a short time ago & a few beers were consumed- so sorry if I ramble on a bit here- BUT I hope U all can get the main 'jist' of what I'm on about!
I LOVE Ampeg & I HOPE it CAN again be the great co. it once was.
 
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