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Low C# Clarity

#21
Ray Salamon said:
All I have to say is good for you. You're not the "average" person obviously. What do you want us to do, bow down to your mightiness? Do you feel you would've heard that same difference of a true 17Hz note (NOT what you're hearing from your bass cabs - a generated 17Hz note sent through equipment that can truly reproduce it, and not it's harmonic content).
Also, you're side tracking your own argument here. You heard a minute difference on an A string. Ok. That's still not qualifying how your cabs "reproduce" 17Hz as you claim, nor how anyone hears the actual fundamental.
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No you're missing the point. Most people feel that because they can't hear certain notes or at certain levels that the ability does not exist for others.


And for the record do I take little petty pot shots at you? If you can't come into a thread that I started or a thread where I make a comment and not be respectful and contribute something with out the your pettiness don't come in with your negativity.

You've shown a pattern of popping up in my threads with the same negativity.

People can disagree and that's a healthy thing. But the extra stuff is not called for.
 
#22
JAUQO III-X said:
No you're missing the point. Most people feel that because they can't hear certain notes or at certain levels that the ability does not exist for others.


And for the record do I take little petty pot shots at you? If you can't come into a thread that I started or a thread where I make a comment and not be respectful and contribute something with out the your pettiness don't come in with your negativity.

You've shown a pattern of popping up in my threads with the same negativity.
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I take issues with people who spread BS around, especially when it's easy to scientifically prove that it's BS. If someone says something incorrect, I correct it if I'm able to. You may view it as "negativity" since it strikes against your belief and for that I'm sorry, but I can't change the laws of physics nor refute the research done by a lot of smart people. I respect you as a player (heck, you and I talked on the phone a few times, remember?), I naturally respect you as a person, but sometimes your threads are seemingly started to invoke a kind of response (either due to lack of information in the OP, or things of that nature) or you go on with things like this, where you're claiming that you can hear 17Hz from your cabs. I don't claim that you can't hear 17Hz. I'm truly glad you can. I'm good down to 19Hz myself consistently. I however also realize that our equipment does not produce those fundamentals, and our heads are filling in the gaps. It's cool to think that our heads do that, really, but that doesn't mean your cabs are throwing out 17Hz notes (I wish they were - I'd LOVE to hear and feel that!!!).
 
#24
JAUQO III-X said:
To give you guys an idea of how good my hearing is.
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I think this begs a question separate from your original questions: How well does the average listener of your music, live or in recorded format, "hear" with clarity the C#?

If C# clarity is relative to the listener and you are at the 98th %tile then this might mean the average person can't hear or experiences a very "poor" version of the low C#. Isn't this what's important?
 
#25
perfektspace6 said:
I think this begs a question separate from your original questions: How well does the average listener of your music, live or in recorded format, "hear" with clarity the C#?

If C# clarity is relative to the listener and you are at the 98th %tile then this might mean the average person can't hear or experiences a very "poor" version of the low C#. Isn't this what's important?
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IMO - no. While I care what my audience hears (and feels)... I also take what *I* want to make as paramount. If I wanted to throw out low C#s, I'd do so regardless of who all can hear it. It's art, afterall, right? No matter what you do, not everyone will "appreciate" it, so you might as well do what you like. If you like that C#, play it. If someone hears it, great. If they don't, oh well, they're missing out. Right? :)
 
#26
JAUQO III-X said:
ugly_bassplayer my experience is my exsperience. It's nothing more than that. Kats are always quick to throw up what some text book says as being golden.
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I think what's partially happening here is multiple, simultaneous arguments:
1) What Jauqo III-X is "hearing"
2) What the audience is "hearing"
3) What supposedly the average person can/can't "hear"
4) What typical bass guitar gear can and cannot reproduce

The first two can't be justified in textbooks, at all. The third one can be generalized, and researched, but it doesn't help since everyone is unique. The last is something that can be solidified and was the point I was personally arguing.
 
#27
Simple, record or plug in a computer with a sine wave tone generator, set it to 17hz and see if you can hear it. Most(if not all) cabs will not produce that frequency. Hell even the low 30hz sounds are very hard to hear without a bigass well produced rig. Most start at the high 30's and low 40's.
 
#28
A 17 Hz. frequency would be the equivalent of incessant 64th notes at 65.28 BPM.

Not sure how 'usable' that would be as a 'bass note'.

As an effect, sure.

Drum roll, please...

Example of 16 cycles per second - with 60 BPM click

Example of 17 cycles per second

I think I can perceive these examples as pitch... I think.

It’s not a question of whether it can be heard. It’s a question of musical usefulness.

Where can I 'experience' this 17Hz. pitch in a musical context?
 
#31
JAUQO III-X said:
I'm not making the claim. some people say they don't hear a 17hz because it's not possible.

But I want the ones who say that it's not possible to tell me why they feel it's not.
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From one Adler advocate to another :)
Hearing range - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - check out the section on "humans."

They may feel it's not possible to hear it, but hear that it is possible to feel it.

Z
 
#32
tylerwylie said:
Simple, record or plug in a computer with a sine wave tone generator, set it to 17hz and see if you can hear it. Most(if not all) cabs will not produce that frequency. Hell even the low 30hz sounds are very hard to hear without a bigass well produced rig. Most start at the high 30's and low 40's.
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may be a stupid question, but if most cabs can't produce 17hz as you and others say, how can someone hear the frequency from a computer?

...not trying to be flippant, just genuinely curious how one would know he/she can hear it if speakers can't produce it...do hearing test machines use a differrent tech to produce the low frequencies?

edit: does it have to do with sine vs pressure waves?
 
#33
()smoke() said:
may be a stupid question, but if most cabs can't produce 17hz as you and others say, how can someone hear the frequency from a computer?

...not trying to be flippant, just genuinely curious how one would know he/she can hear it if speakers can't produce it...do hearing test machines use a differrent tech to produce the low frequencies?

edit: does it have to do with sine vs pressure waves?
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A lot of people have computers with subwoofers, which are going to be a bit better at reproducing those ultra-lows. I doubt many can do a good job with 17Hz, but it'll at least give you an idea of it. If not speakers, then there's a lot of cans that can do 17Hz.
 
#35
()smoke() said:
ah, I see, thanks!...the only hearing tests I've had were with what appeared to be consumer grade earphones...and I wonder why sub technology isn't used for bass rigs more, buy my guess is power requirements are too high...
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Lots of reasons...but there have been people who have and do in big bi-amp'd rigs.
It's fun getting a "real" hearing test, especially just to see your results. I try to test annually to make sure I'm taking care of my ears.
 
#36
Ray Salamon said:
Lots of reasons...but there have been people who have and do in big bi-amp'd rigs.
It's fun getting a "real" hearing test, especially just to see your results. I try to test annually to make sure I'm taking care of my ears.
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I love biamping. Under 140Hz goes down to my 18" where I run it with 900W.


I need to schedule an appointment with the audiologist for a hearing test and some custom ear plugs. I don't think it's covered under my insurance, though.
 
#37
FunkMetalBass said:
I love biamping. Under 140Hz goes down to my 18" where I run it with 900W.


I need to schedule an appointment with the audiologist for a hearing test and some custom ear plugs. I don't think it's covered under my insurance, though.
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My annual visit is covered. My custom ear plugs weren't, but they were only like $150 total, which for what I got, I thought was AMAZING.

What're you using to crossover? (Thread hijack: completed)
 
#39
#40
ixlramp said:
The Eminent Technology TRW-17 rotary woofer has a 1Hz to 30Hz flat response.
Eminent Technology: home

How it works
[This invalid link has been removed]

http://www.eminent-tech.com/graphics/woofercomparison.jpg
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If you want the fundamental of 17hz, you need to have something like this. If you don't have something like this, you aren't getting the fundamental of 17hz regardless of how good you think your ears are.

And, in a club environment filled (you hope) with people? Forget it. It's academic at best. And, if the majority of the crowd can't hear it, and they still enjoy the show, how much is 17hz bringing to the creative process apart from bragging rights?
 

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