• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Low Down Sound Club, Part Four

#801
It has an 18Sound 6ND410 mid driver but I usually keep that rolled of a bit as the Ciares sound great that way. I can't give you any details on the crossover except that IIRC the crossover frequency is around 800 Hz. It is not a supper loud cabinet as these are not very sensitive drivers but if you really do your 8x8 column you won't have any worries; these drivers have amazing Xmax for their size. The cab is fairly small at 27"H x 14"W x 16"D but it does hold it's own in a small to medium size room full of people, or even at outdoor gigs with PA support.

LDS-286_1280_RRF_8329.jpg


LDS-286_1280_RRF_8331.jpg
 
#804
ehque said:
How is it? Do you use it with any mid/tweeter?

I don't see how the increased power handling justifies the loss in efficiency over the 8PR200, so I'll probably go with that. 104db per watt and 1600W power handling (for a 8x8) seems enough, or possibly too much.
Click to expand...
If I was going to do any "all 8" cabs, the 8PR200 would be my choice. If you like HFs, then yes, include one. But I see no point in a mid since the Faital's top is 5kHz & the chart/graph looks pretty smooth, unlike the Ciare.

This Selenium is an excellent HF to consider.
http://www.parts-express.com/selenium-d220ti-1-titanium-horn-driver-8-ohm-1-3-8-18--264-270

If you want an 8x8 with the 8PR200, then 1600 RMS is what you get. Too much? Nope, not at all. It's a safety net, albeit an expensive one :woot: .
 
Last edited:
#805
Question about 3-way designs: What determines how power is distributed amongst the different drivers? I know there are a lot of factors involved to give an exact answer, but I'm just trying to get a deeper understanding of all this.

For example:

Bass Driver: 450W
Mid Driver: 80W
HF Driver: 50W

When connected to a 600W amp, how much power, on average, is distributed to each driver? From what I understand, power splits evenly with a 2x10 cab for example, but different driver sizes with crossovers...not sure what's going on there. I assume most of the watts go to the bass driver (and even more so if lower frequencies are boosted by EQ anywhere in the signal chain) but obviously not all...only reason I ask is because in the scenario above, how likely is it (using conservative EQ) that, when pushing the amp close to its limits (before blatant distortion kicks in), any one of the drivers would see more than its rating?
 
#807
johndough247 said:
Question about 3-way designs: What determines how power is distributed amongst the different drivers? I know there are a lot of factors involved to give an exact answer, but I'm just trying to get a deeper understanding of all this.

For example:

Bass Driver: 450W
Mid Driver: 80W
HF Driver: 50W

When connected to a 600W amp, how much power, on average, is distributed to each driver? From what I understand, power splits evenly with a 2x10 cab for example, but different driver sizes with crossovers...not sure what's going on there. I assume most of the watts go to the bass driver (and even more so if lower frequencies are boosted by EQ anywhere in the signal chain) but obviously not all...only reason I ask is because in the scenario above, how likely is it (using conservative EQ) that, when pushing the amp close to its limits (before blatant distortion kicks in), any one of the drivers would see more than its rating?
Click to expand...
Fine questions. I don't know. Going to watch for replies from any cab makers, specifically.
 
#808
More in depth answer.

johndough247 said:
Question about 3-way designs: What determines how power is distributed amongst the different drivers? I know there are a lot of factors involved to give an exact answer, but I'm just trying to get a deeper understanding of all this.
Click to expand...

The cross over. Pretty much what it does is filter voltages. Under a certain frequency passes to the woofer. Over a certain frequency to the mid driver. Depending on the actual cross over, it may limit the top end of the mid driver and pass to the tweeter, or it may just filter content at the mid drivers roll off point to the tweeter.

johndough247 said:
For example:

Bass Driver: 450W
Mid Driver: 80W
HF Driver: 50W

When connected to a 600W amp, how much power, on average, is distributed to each driver? From what I understand, power splits evenly with a 2x10 cab for example, but different driver sizes with crossovers...not sure what's going on there. I assume most of the watts go to the bass driver (and even more so if lower frequencies are boosted by EQ anywhere in the signal chain) but obviously not all...only reason I ask is because in the scenario above, how likely is it (using conservative EQ) that, when pushing the amp close to its limits (before blatant distortion kicks in), any one of the drivers would see more than its rating?
Click to expand...

The largest portion of energy goes to the woofer. In almost every crossed over system, the LF portion will be your limiting factor.
 
#809
Thanks for the more detailed answer...I guess my next question is: watts...how relevant is the power handling of a driver compared to its sensitivity?

Example: two drivers from the same company; same size, same magnet material, similar design...I know other factors contribute to this, but...let's say they're both 15" drivers:

driver A has 100dB sensitivity and thermal rating of 100W
Driver B has 97dB sensitivity and thermal rating of 400W

In theory, with all other variables being as equal as realistically possible:

A) would one driver be louder than the other or would they be even in loudness?
B) If they're not even, what number(s) would you change in my scenario to make them even in loudness?
C) where would each driver's xMax come into play in this scenario?
 
#810
johndough247 said:
Thanks for the more detailed answer...I guess my next question is: watts...how relevant is the power handling of a driver compared to its sensitivity?

Example: two drivers from the same company; same size, same magnet material, similar design...I know other factors contribute to this, but...let's say they're both 15" drivers:

driver A has 100dB sensitivity and thermal rating of 100W
Driver B has 97dB sensitivity and thermal rating of 400W

In theory, with all other variables being as equal as realistically possible:

A) would one driver be louder than the other or would they be even in loudness?
B) If they're not even, what number(s) would you change in my scenario to make them even in loudness?
C) where would each driver's xMax come into play in this scenario?
Click to expand...

The xMax would actually determine the real world power handling in association with the design of the cab around the speaker. You would need all the T/S specs to model that. The figures you see are thermal limits, and have little relevance to power handling. Per how loud those drivers are, I would ask you, "At what frequency?" At 2khz? Who cares. At 50hz? More relevant.
 
#811
CL400Peavey said:
The xMax would actually determine the real world power handling in association with the design of the cab around the speaker. You would need all the T/S specs to model that. The figures you see are thermal limits, and have little relevance to power handling. Per how loud those drivers are, I would ask you, "At what frequency?" At 2khz? Who cares. At 50hz? More relevant.
Click to expand...

Ok let's use specific drivers for comparing loudness: the 3015LF (xMax: 9.6mm) to the 15PR400 (xMax: 5.75mm) @ 50 Hz.

Freq. Response charts show @ 50 Hz the 3015LF at 87 dB and the 15PR400 at approx 92 - 93 dB. So the 3015LF has almost double the xMax and a resonant frequency closer to 50 Hz (44 Hz), while the 15PR400 has a lower tuning frequency (32 Hz) and a higher SPL based on response charts. When put in an optimally designed cabinet for each driver, which would most likely be louder at 50 Hz?
 
  • Like
Reactions: gregormendel
#812
johndough247 said:
Ok let's use specific drivers for comparing loudness: the 3015LF (xMax: 9.6mm) to the 15PR400 (xMax: 5.75mm) @ 50 Hz.

Freq. Response charts show @ 50 Hz the 3015LF at 87 dB and the 15PR400 at approx 92 - 93 dB. So the 3015LF has almost double the xMax and a resonant frequency closer to 50 Hz (44 Hz), while the 15PR400 has a lower tuning frequency (32 Hz) and a higher SPL based on response charts. When put in an optimally designed cabinet for each driver, which would most likely be louder at 50 Hz?
Click to expand...

How much power do you have on tap?

Driven to their full potential, in the right box. The 3015LF is going to be louder.
 
#814
johndough247 said:
375 Watts in both applications
Click to expand...

At 50hz, the 3015LF will still be louder than the faital with 375 watts. That said, from 200hz up the faital will be louder. Not really a fair comparison, as the 3015LF isnt a stand alone driver, and the faital is. The LF is a sub woofer, and will do things below 100hz that very few drivers can do. It needs to be paired with a mid driver though.
 
#815
CL400Peavey said:
At 50hz, the 3015LF will still be louder than the faital with 375 watts. That said, from 200hz up the faital will be louder. Not really a fair comparison, as the 3015LF isnt a stand alone driver, and the faital is. The LF is a sub woofer, and will do things below 100hz that very few drivers can do. It needs to be paired with a mid driver though.
Click to expand...

So getting to the root of the matter...it's safe to say you probably wouldn't recommend pairing a 3 way with the 3015LF loaded (Faital M5N8-80 mid) with a 2 way (15PR400 with tweet) due to such variances in volume across the sub 1 kHz range?
 
#818
I see there haven't been many posts here in over a month, but I wanted to say that through TB and this thread, I am ready to have Don build me a standalone cab for my Ampeg V4B. We talked about the width of the V4B and I discussed with him my decision to go with the Faital 15pr400 over the Eminence 3015HO. It was also his choice for driver for this build. I wanted a single cab solution for the Ampeg and Don told me the mids are smoother and no mod driver or tweet is needed with the Faital as I saw here on TB.

I have not thought about a tweeter or 15/6 design, but mainly wanted a 4 ohm 15 so I could use my Genz Benz Streamliner and 400RB with the 15. His advice and build quality seems to be top notch and I know that the Faital will be great as a standalone. It amazes me that these cabs can be built with the great prices. I own 2 Bergantino HD112's that I absolutely love and hope the LDS will sound great with the V$B which mainly stays home. My build will most likely be in black tolex and the steel or mesh grill, or what Don calls "standard clothes." Thanks to TB for the wealth of info on these 15" drivers. I am hoping to pick up a Tecamp Puma 500 in the near future which would sound killer through the Faital.
 
  • Like
Reactions: svtb15
#820
Thanks. I know it will be top notch. I do not gig often and would use this setup for strictly jamming with a friends band or practicing at home. I talked to Don first about a 215 cab and then thought it would be too much for ny needs in terms of volume and weight. I am impressed with Don's work and know I will be counting down the days until it gets here.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back