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Low Tension Strings

#21
Speaking of gauge/string tension.....does anyone know what gauge string Ed Friedland uses? I've been trying to learn the slap style, picked up his instructional DVD and he said for that particular style you want to use a light gauge string, but he didn't mention any particular numbers as to what he prefers.

Of course, he's a great player who's been at it for years but he makes it seem so effortless. Any clue as to what brand/gauge he uses?
 
#22
Mike M. said:
Speaking of gauge/string tension.....does anyone know what gauge string Ed Friedland uses? I've been trying to learn the slap style, picked up his instructional DVD and he said for that particular style you want to use a light gauge string, but he didn't mention any particular numbers as to what he prefers.

Of course, he's a great player who's been at it for years but he makes it seem so effortless. Any clue as to what brand/gauge he uses?
Click to expand...

Ed is keen on DR strings, especially the ExtraLife Black Beauties, but I don't know what he uses on a daily basis.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#24
ixlramp said:
Here's D'Addario's own tension data for the 45-100 set ...

XLB045 G 0.045 42.8 pounds of tension
XLB065 D 0.065 51.3
XLB080 A 0.080 42.0
XLB100 E 0.100 36.5

... 15.6 pounds more tension on D G than on E A. Most basses can take this no problem, but if you have a sensitive neck, perhaps equal tension on each string is a good idea ;)
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I have got on and the neck is fine with this set.
 
#25
ixlramp said:
That's not what I meant :)

By 'tension' surely you mean 'stiffness'? By tension I mean the scientific definition.

Gauge and tension are directly linked, tension at a particular pitch is almost entirely determined by gauge. A heavy gauge .50 to .150 will have high tension. We had this discussion on another thread recently: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=736333
Click to expand...

I'm sure you've got your physics right and I'm just trying to learn more :hmm:

There's little doubt that, standard pitch and tension given, mass/inch will have to be the same on all strings.

But in the other thread there's a distinction being made between core and winding. Strings may differ in terms of structure. A more open winding may result in a larger gauge but the mass/inch may be the same compared to strings with tighter winding (like f.e. flatwounds)

Strings may also differ in terms of alloys. Lighter alloys will result in thicker strings. F.e. nickel is about 10% heavier compared to steel.

So IMHO the relationship between gauge and tension is less obvious than it may seem.
 
#26
Chris K said:
I'm sure you've got your physics right and I'm just trying to learn more :hmm:

There's little doubt that, standard pitch and tension given, mass/inch will have to be the same on all strings.

But in the other thread there's a distinction being made between core and winding. Strings may differ in terms of structure. A more open winding may result in a larger gauge but the mass/inch may be the same compared to strings with tighter winding (like f.e. flatwounds)

Strings may also differ in terms of alloys. Lighter alloys will result in thicker strings. F.e. nickel is about 10% heavier compared to steel.

So IMHO the relationship between gauge and tension is less obvious than it may seem.
Click to expand...

True, but it's rarely the case that a company's .105 nickel round will have less tension than some other company's .100 nickel round. And since most string manufacturer's don't publish any data, we have no choice but to make a few assumptions based solely on gauge.
 
#27
Mike M. said:
Speaking of gauge/string tension.....does anyone know what gauge string Ed Friedland uses? I've been trying to learn the slap style, picked up his instructional DVD and he said for that particular style you want to use a light gauge string, but he didn't mention any particular numbers as to what he prefers.

Of course, he's a great player who's been at it for years but he makes it seem so effortless. Any clue as to what brand/gauge he uses?
Click to expand...

"Light" is relative. I personally like using something with a .095 E-string for slapping. I'd consider that to be light.
 
#30
Unless someone has really messed up your truss rods, the 3001 should be very well equipped to handle most strings. Rickenbacker truss rods from the 1970s are very tough and durable, the problems start when people adjust them the wrong way. I would really try to make sure your tech isn't one of those people who is just scared sh*tless when he/she sees a Ric in the work queue. I am lucky in that I have known a couple of really skilled techs who actually prefer to work on Rics. They helped me by dispelling lots of silly myths about them, and helped me learn how to do my own basic setups. A good tech will usually share information like that.

Also, a 3001 has a three-piece neck with a center shedua strip which will in most cases make it very stable. Much more so than a one-piece maple neck or even a two-piece maple neck.

In any case... if your 3001 really does need light tension strings, these are my recommendations: Circle K 4 String Balanced Standard 096 ( Link Removed ), Rickenbacker S-110 nickel rounds ( [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] ), and Dean Markley 2670A nickel rounds ( [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] ).
 
#34
FunkMetalBass said:
True, but it's rarely the case that a company's .105 nickel round will have less tension than some other company's .100 nickel round. And since most string manufacturer's don't publish any data, we have no choice but to make a few assumptions based solely on gauge.
Click to expand...

I put Galli Saturn Steel strings on two of my basses. I used to play TI Jazz Rounds and everyone on TB will agree that those are low tension. B-string is .125. With Galli: .150. There's no noticeable difference in tension. But Roto's, at .130 have much, much more tension.
 
#35
cassius987 said:
Unless someone has really messed up your truss rods, the 3001 should be very well equipped to handle most strings. Rickenbacker truss rods from the 1970s are very tough and durable, the problems start when people adjust them the wrong way. I would really try to make sure your tech isn't one of those people who is just scared sh*tless when he/she sees a Ric in the work queue. I am lucky in that I have known a couple of really skilled techs who actually prefer to work on Rics. They helped me by dispelling lots of silly myths about them, and helped me learn how to do my own basic setups. A good tech will usually share information like that.

Also, a 3001 has a three-piece neck with a center shedua strip which will in most cases make it very stable. Much more so than a one-piece maple neck or even a two-piece maple neck.

In any case... if your 3001 really does need light tension strings, these are my recommendations: Circle K 4 String Balanced Standard 096 ( Link Removed ), Rickenbacker S-110 nickel rounds ( [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] ), and Dean Markley 2670A nickel rounds ( [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] ).
Click to expand...

This is the response I got from my tech, which my make my issue a bit clearer: "If you fitted 45 to 105 gauge, certainly the fourth string would be sharp. The intonation was seriously out before I started work on it so it is going to be nowhere near as bad as it was. The bridge would need to be modified so that it was moved about 3 mm in order to achieve a good intonation.
Personally I would stick to the gauge that you have on at the moment. I don't know what gauge Rickenbacker advised out of their D'Addario range. I know that the truss rods are quite tight with the gauge that you have on at the moment and therefore they of working not only against the tension of the strings but also the tension within the actual wood in the neck as well.
As for the sound being diminished due to the slightly lighter gauge, personally I don't think there is such a massive difference. Very often the guitar wood is what gives a lot of the sound combined with the pickup. "
 
#36
Chris K said:
But in the other thread there's a distinction being made between core and winding. Strings may differ in terms of structure. A more open winding may result in a larger gauge but the mass/inch may be the same compared to strings with tighter winding (like f.e. flatwounds)

Strings may also differ in terms of alloys. Lighter alloys will result in thicker strings. F.e. nickel is about 10% heavier compared to steel.

So IMHO the relationship between gauge and tension is less obvious than it may seem.
Click to expand...

Yes ;)

Chris K said:
I put Galli Saturn Steel strings on two of my basses. I used to play TI Jazz Rounds and everyone on TB will agree that those are low tension. B-string is .125. With Galli: .150. There's no noticeable difference in tension. But Roto's, at .130 have much, much more tension.
Click to expand...

Interesting ... I guess the Galli's feel the same tension while possibly being at a higher scientific tension. The TI Jazz roundwound are nickels on a round core and the Galli's are steels. Perhaps the difference in structure and materials makes them feel the same.

For example if the TI 125s have 4 layers of fine nickel wrap and the Galli 150s have 3 layers of thick steel wrap, their unit masses may be closer than you would expect. The TIs may be stiff lower tension strings that feel the same as the flexible higher tension Galli strings.

Anyway sorry if I seemed to question your experience. I'm willing to accept that differences between brands can cause a significant difference in tension, for the same gauge.
 
#37
sarlscharisma said:
This is the response I got from my tech, which my make my issue a bit clearer: "If you fitted 45 to 105 gauge, certainly the fourth string would be sharp. The intonation was seriously out before I started work on it so it is going to be nowhere near as bad as it was. The bridge would need to be modified so that it was moved about 3 mm in order to achieve a good intonation.
Personally I would stick to the gauge that you have on at the moment. I don't know what gauge Rickenbacker advised out of their D'Addario range. I know that the truss rods are quite tight with the gauge that you have on at the moment and therefore they of working not only against the tension of the strings but also the tension within the actual wood in the neck as well.
As for the sound being diminished due to the slightly lighter gauge, personally I don't think there is such a massive difference. Very often the guitar wood is what gives a lot of the sound combined with the pickup. "
Click to expand...

I bolded the red flag. Your tech doesn't know how the rods work--they aren't supposed to work against string tension. In a 3001 they are designed to "lock" the neck in a straight position, with or without string tension being applied... they are very good at this. They are NOT good at being used like a conventional rod to reduce neck relief directly. You probably need to find another tech. If you can't, I will tell you how to do the proper adjustment yourself. After you do that you can probably use any strings you please.
 
#38
sarlscharisma said:
This is the response I got from my tech, which my make my issue a bit clearer: "If you fitted 45 to 105 gauge, certainly the fourth string would be sharp. The intonation was seriously out before I started work on it so it is going to be nowhere near as bad as it was. The bridge would need to be modified so that it was moved about 3 mm in order to achieve a good intonation."
Click to expand...

Sounds like the saddles are at the rearward limit of their travel? Thinner strings of the same brand and type don't need the saddles so far back. I would drop the gauges by .005, 40-95 or 35-95, D'Addario sell a 40-95 set. This would also reduce the tension on the neck.

The intonation is determined by the string set, so choose your set first, then get your tech to intonate it ;)

Concerning loosing out on the low end, looser strings actually have more low end frequencies and sound much better to my ears.
 

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