Lows w/ Punch. Epi UL310-vs-Berg Mini Stack

[Buzz]

My research tells me I could get and Epi UL310 or a Berg HT112 & EX112 mini stack for roughly the same money. I have read that both of these products love power. I'll have 500 watts to give either set up. That being said........My question is for those that own (or have owned) these products, which of these set ups offer deep lows and still retain a nice punch. Thanks!

Buzz

 

[KJung]

I always considered the EpiUL's to be very efficient... so not sure about the 'love power' comment.... 500 watts will more than drive the heck out of that 310UL IMO (although with the 5.3 ohm thing, you will lose a touch of that 500 watts).

Never played the Berg stack, but have owned the 310UL and currently own the HT210S.... the Berg brings the term 'punch' more to mind with me.. very strong mids and very warm.. (I'm speaking of the HT210S now, but many Berg owners describe the smaller cabs that way on TB, so I assume it holds for the mini stack). The 310UL is more open... more upper mids and a crisper treble response, and lower lows.

I'm a big fan of one cab solutions... the larger 310UL weighs less and is tall enough to use castors versus the two smaller Bergs.

However, if you are looking for a lot of mid punch... the Berg stack might be it for you.

 

[inazone]

I have the berg 112 stack (well, I gigged them a lot then gave them to may dad) and have played the epi 310 but not live (I do have the epi 410 though).
I think that the bergs punch better but the epi 310 might have a but more low end. Even if it dosent, it 'sounds' like it does.

btw, I ran the berg mini stack with about 550 watts (EBS head) and it sounded and worked great.

 

[tombowlus]

I would think that the Berg stack would be more rig for the money, and certainly a classic setup. The UL310 is a very nice sounding cab, though, for sure. It's a win/win situation as far as I am concerned, but my vote would be for the HT112/EX112 stack. This is a really special sounding cab combo, IME/IMHO, and you would also have the option of using just the HT112 (or EX112) on its own.

Tom.

 

[CaptainWally]

I would think that the Berg stack would be more rig for the money, and certainly a classic setup. The UL310 is a very nice sounding cab, though, for sure. It's a win/win situation as far as I am concerned, but my vote would be for the HT112/EX112 stack. This is a really special sounding cab combo, IME/IMHO, and you would also have the option of using just the HT112 (or EX112) on its own.

Tom.

+1

 

[MacGroove]

Like Ken said, the Epi 310 is 5.3 ohms and you might loose a little bit of the 500 watts. I use to own a 310NCY years ago, loved it but I got more out of the two Epi 112UL's and sold the 310. The 12's expand my tonal voicing more. I know you didn't mention the Epi 112's so hope I didn't throw a wrench into it for ya. I'm not familiar with the Berg's as far as how much punch and low end you'll get to your liking, I'd trust Ken and Tom, but the Epi 310 has it. Like Ken, I like to take only one cab (my Epi 410UL).
My two 12UL's are for double gigging, as a back up or for a tonal change every now and then.

 

[CaptainWally]

Like Ken said, the Epi 310 is 5.3 ohms and you might loose a little bit of the 500 watts. I use to own a 310NCY years ago, loved it but I got more out of the two Epi 112UL's and sold the 310. The 12's expand my tonal voicing more. I know you didn't mention the Epi 112's so hope I didn't throw a wrench into it for ya. I'm not familiar with the Berg's as far as how much punch and low end you'll get to your liking, I'd trust Ken and Tom, but the Epi 310 has it. Like Ken, I like to take only one cab (my Epi 410UL).
My two 12UL's are for double gigging, as a back up or for a tonal change every now and then.

Actually, the website now says the 310UL is 4 ohms.

Speaker: 3 x 250w RMS Cast Aluminum Frame 100w RMS Tweeter
Freq Response: 40hz - 16khz
Power Rating: 750w RMS (1800w Peak)
4 Ohms
Suggested Wattage: 200w - 1000w
Dimensions: 23" H x 21.5" W x 16.5 " D
Sensitivity: 103db SPL @ 1w 1m
Weight: 47 lbs.
Price: Contact Your Local Dealer

 

[CaptainWally]

Never played the Berg stack, but have owned the 310UL and currently own the HT210S.... the Berg brings the term 'punch' more to mind with me.. very strong mids and very warm.. (I'm speaking of the HT210S now, but many Berg owners describe the smaller cabs that way on TB, so I assume it holds for the mini stack). The 310UL is more open... more upper mids and a crisper treble response, and lower lows.

How do you like the HT210S? Do you use standalone? Is it an efficient cab?

 

[CaptainWally]

My research tells me I could get and Epi UL310 or a Berg HT112 & EX112 mini stack for roughly the same money. I have read that both of these products love power. I'll have 500 watts to give either set up. That being said........My question is for those that own (or have owned) these products, which of these set ups offer deep lows and still retain a nice punch. Thanks!

Buzz

I use 500W (ashdown abm) w/ the bergs, and it gets me by.

 

[emjazz]

I use 500W (ashdown abm) w/ the bergs, and it gets me by.

I use the Ashdown EVO500II with my Berg mini stack and the volume is way more than I need. Not sure if what you meant by "gets me by" to be that it's just enough. For me this setup is much more than I need volume wise.

As for the question at hand, different strokes for different folks....even with the lows being more with the Epi I'd take the Berg mini stack any day of the week. I still can't over the sound of those cabs. If you want to go big time than check out the Berg IP310 for the best low end and punch in a single cab I've ever heard. I also know that Jim has an unpowered "IP"310 at his place and I believe he's trying to get rid of it. I'd suggest you speak to him about that.

 

[CaptainWally]

I use the Ashdown EVO500II with my Berg mini stack and the volume is way more than I need. Not sure if what you meant by "gets me by" to be that it's just enough. For me this setup is much more than I need volume wise.

As for the question at hand, different strokes for different folks....even with the lows being more with the Epi I'd take the Berg mini stack any day of the week. I still can't over the sound of those cabs. If you want to go big time than check out the Berg IP310 for the best low end and punch in a single cab I've ever heard. I also know that Jim has an unpowered "IP"310 at his place and I believe he's trying to get rid of it. I'd suggest you speak to him about that.

Our volume needs are different...I could probably use a little more power...don't forget, you've got 75 more Watts on me as it is. I'd like to have 1k W for headroom.

 

[tombowlus]

I'd like to have 1k W for headroom.

What a coincidence! That's what you get with the IP112/EX112!

 

[jokerjkny]

no doubt, UL310.

unless you need the modularity of a rig that allows you to take half of it to smaller gigs, i'd just cut to the chase and get the UL310. its a punch monster, and louder than most 4x10's (Epifani UL410, nonwithstanding).

besides, i have yet to try a 12" loaded cab that gave me the chest pounding punch of 10" speakers.

 

[KJung]

How do you like the HT210S? Do you use standalone? Is it an efficient cab?

It's a very nice cab. I wouldn't call it 'super efficient' like the Schroeders, but much more efficient than Acme's. The volume is similar to the EA NL210.... the Berg has less extension in the low end and more lower mid punch than the EA's. I have the 4ohm version, and plan on using it as a stand alone cab for smaller gigs... especially jazz type gigs on electric bass.

My guess is that volume-wise, it's somewhere between a single Berg 112 and the 2-12 stack.

It's not a lightweight cab (55 pounds), but it's so small (probably the smallest 210 out there) that it feels much lighter... no problem carrying it at all, and of course, absolutel no problem on a cart.

It's a very nice cab, and would be loud enough for a moderate volume gig if you weren't looking for huge bottom IMO.

 

[KJung]

Actually, the website now says the 310UL is 4 ohms.

Speaker: 3 x 250w RMS Cast Aluminum Frame 100w RMS Tweeter
Freq Response: 40hz - 16khz
Power Rating: 750w RMS (1800w Peak)
4 Ohms
Suggested Wattage: 200w - 1000w
Dimensions: 23" H x 21.5" W x 16.5 " D
Sensitivity: 103db SPL @ 1w 1m
Weight: 47 lbs.
Price: Contact Your Local Dealer

I'm almost certain that it's still 5.3 ohms. This was discussed in another thread a while back. Since 5.3 ohms is similar to a 4ohm cab when it comes to combining cabs (i.e., you need to treat it as a 4ohm cab versus an 8ohm cab) I believe Nick just simplified the description to 4ohms.

The efficiency of the Epi's vs. the Bergs more than makes up for the slight power loss going from 4 ohms to 5.3 ohms... so this is really not an issue. The key to the decision for me would be:

- Single cab versus Multiple.... the 310UL is one of the smallest, lightest cabs that can do a full sized, full volume gig IMO.

- Lower mid punch and warmth vs. wider, open, lower lows crisper highs, etc.... with the Berg closer to the former and the Epi closer to the latter.

Again, both great options IMO.

 

[Buzz]

- Single cab versus Multiple.... the 310UL is one of the smallest, lightest cabs that can do a full sized, full volume gig IMO.

This is a big plus. But I am also very curious about those who have talked about the seamless crossover and tweeter of the Bergs.

Of course this is coming from a guy (me) who has two Goliath horns that he keeps turning down and down and down.

 

[msquared]

I'm almost certain that it's still 5.3 ohms. This was discussed in another thread a while back. Since 5.3 ohms is similar to a 4ohm cab when it comes to combining cabs (i.e., you need to treat it as a 4ohm cab versus an 8ohm cab) I believe Nick just simplified the description to 4ohms.

It'd be interesting to find out for sure. I can't imagine it'd be tough for Epifani to get 12ohm drivers made for these, especially since Bergantino is using 24 ohm drivers to get the NV610 to 4 ohms.

Anybody have one they're willing to open up?

 

[CaptainWally]

What a coincidence! That's what you get with the IP112/EX112!

*sigh* Yes, I know.

Unfortunately, the IP112 also comes with another feature though: a hefty charge to my debit card.

 

[CaptainWally]

I'm almost certain that it's still 5.3 ohms. This was discussed in another thread a while back. Since 5.3 ohms is similar to a 4ohm cab when it comes to combining cabs (i.e., you need to treat it as a 4ohm cab versus an 8ohm cab) I believe Nick just simplified the description to 4ohms.

The efficiency of the Epi's vs. the Bergs more than makes up for the slight power loss going from 4 ohms to 5.3 ohms... so this is really not an issue. The key to the decision for me would be:

- Single cab versus Multiple.... the 310UL is one of the smallest, lightest cabs that can do a full sized, full volume gig IMO.

- Lower mid punch and warmth vs. wider, open, lower lows crisper highs, etc.... with the Berg closer to the former and the Epi closer to the latter.

Again, both great options IMO.

Ah...interesting. Wouldn't saying it's 4 ohms when it's actually 5.3 ohms be a bit disingenuous? I know the Bergantino 310 is a genuine 4 ohm load.

EDIT: So I just picked up the phone and called Epifani...it's 5.3 ohms. The guy that did their website "made lots of mistakes all over the place" and they're in the process of getting it fixed - apologized for the misinformation.

Voila!

 

[vision]

the 310UL is one of the smallest, lightest cabs that can do a full sized, full volume gig IMO.

+1

I've played on a few really loud gigs with the 310UL, and I've been amazed at how well it performed. And I'm talking about in a band with 2 keyboardists with 3 boards each, loud drums, background singers, guitar, and backing tracks with additional percussion and samples. The Epi never broke a sweat. I even played a couple shows without PA support for me, and I still had no problem being heard. The Epi is a good deal louder than the pair of Eden 210XLT's that I used to gig with. And it retains its sound at all volumes - very open, clear, and natural sounding. You can hear every nuance in your playing.