Loyalty

[Spent]

My band is very active for weekend warriors, we gig every weekend and have a couple Friday Saturday gigs. And we're booked through New Year's Eve. One venue has been unreliable at best and 4 out of 5 of us want to cut the chord. They only reason we agree to play there is that it's really close to the guitarists house and he travels the farthest (he's in Connecticut, the rest of us in NY) so we want to give him a break once in a while. Here's the rub. We've had five scheduled gigs so far and have been paid for two. Reader' Digest version; first gig equipment problems, we play the night but not to our standard, so we offer the gig gratis. Owner says not a problem, he's already cut the check, stuff happens. Next gig; remember how you guys wanted to play gratis? Here's your chance, we'll let you play this for free. Next gig, no problem, here's your pay. We were a six piece the first two times @ $100 per man, but we lost a member (it was for the better) so he pays us less, but still at @ $100 per man. And we usually get $125 each, we will do it for less the first time we play some where, but more often that not we either charge full amount or the owner throws in am extra $100 (happens more than I expect). Next gig, September 13th, he call yesterday and cancels, it's a sports bar and there's an event. This is the second gig he canceled for the same reason. So, we've had five gigs scheduled, but have only been paid for two. And he tends to cancel. We're booked there until the end of the year (I don't know how many times) and he's got us for the night before Thanksgiving, a big night for clubs. Sorry for the long read, but here comes the dilemma. I want to dump this guy (all agreements are verbal) and schedule a closer gig for thanksgiving eve, we've got two places lined up, one offered us a more than last time for that night, and more than the scheduled place will pay. I told the guitarist to double our rate or tell him we're out. I feel like we're on retainer, but not being paid for it. Do we have any loyalty to this venue or can we dump him, with plenty of notice? I know we don't have a legal obligation, I'm talking about the "is it the right thing to do" thing.

 

[hrodbert696]

Really more band management than humor and gig stories, isn't it? Anyway, I don't see anything that would justify invoking "loyalty" here. The venue hasn't done you any favors above and beyond just hiring you, and hasn't been the best business partner in the world at that. If it were short-notice, I'd say play the gig, because that would leave them scrambling and affect your band's reputation for reliability, but Thanksgiving is three months away. If you have a better offer, take it.

 

[FretNoMore]

You're being professional to give several months notice and there will be zero problem for the venue to book another band, so don't feel sorry for them. They didn't feel bad about cancelling you, did they? If you have a better gig, take it.

 

[xgator4u]

4 out of 5 of us want to cut the chord.

Right THERE is your answer.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

^ + 1

 

[Winfred]

It's show business. There is no loyalty. Make the best business decision you can. Do it politely and professionally, and move on.

Good luck!

 

[BassCliff]

Hi,

If the place doesn't pay you or continues to cancel you, it doesn't really matter how close you live. It's still inconvenient.

There's nothing wrong with giving plenty of notice ahead of time to let the club owner know that you'd like to cancel your remaining dates. You don't even have to give a reason other than to say it's not working out due to several factors, location being one, and you're booking other, closer, venues.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

 

[Spent]

All good advice, pretty much what I thought.

 

[mellowinman]

I'm on the fence about this. If I schedule with someone, I don't tend to cancel. I didn't quite get what the deal was with the gigs you've done so far. His canceling the recent one due to "an event" doesn't look good, and takes away points for him. First gig, equipment problems, I take away points from you. Sounds like everyone involved has been less than professional, so far.

So what about the future? You've got gigs on the books. I would talk to the venue owner, and tell him the deal. "What dates are SET IN STONE?" If he has set in stone dates he's willing to commit to, and you've already committed to them, you should probably play them.

If you do cancel, it could come back at you. Venue owners talk to other venue owners. I hate to say it, but it's best not to piss them off. This comes from experience; I have pissed them off.

I had a very public fight on facebook with a venue, who lied to us, canceled us after we promoted a show, claimed they couldn't afford a band that night, and then stuck in a D-List band who never played there before, because D-List band had hired the singer fired from a B-List band, and the venue owner liked this girl.

They got nasty and personal with me, and I told them their bar smelled like a urinal, which was the nice way of saying it, and I got a ton of likes, and private messages for that comment, but they also went out of their way to trash us with other venues.

Don't be me.

Be nice.

 

[Muttleybass]

Hmm... In reality, you only haven't been paid for one gig. One that the owner called you on after you offered to do the previous one for free... which you got paid for. Although it sux to be cancelled, stuff does happen. He doesn't owe you money just because he cancelled you.

Not sure I agree with offering your services for free... EVER. Sometimes even when you know you suck or have issues, you still go over well. It's always best to wait and see what the feedback is before you un-sell the band. To me, and this is total speculation on my part, you may have cut your own throat by admitting you were sub-standard. Now the venue owner has lost respect for you. I'm a bit surprised you got booked back at all.

If you don't want the gig, then don't book there. There's no such thing as loyalty in the music biz. He's not loyal to you, so why do you feel you need to be loyal to him? I mean, if you commit to a gig, it's in stone, but if he's going to dick you around? Not cool. Most club owners could care less if you played their crappy bar anyway.

Like Mellowin said, be nice about it.

 

[Robroy]

Really more band management than humor and gig stories, isn't it?

For me that was pure humor.

To the op. This club is like a crazy and unfaithful girlfriend that is good in bed.

Dump her.

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

Nah. Cut 'em and move along.

 

[FatBoutedGirls]

I agree with mellowinman, once I agree to a date and $ amount I play the gig unless I'm unable to. No problem with raising your price or not playing there anymore, but not when there is already a verbal agreement. I'm surprised by the number of people that would think it's okay to cancel a gig to play elsewhere for more money after you already agreed to play his establishment.

 

[xgator4u]

I agree with mellowinman, once I agree to a date and $ amount I play the gig unless I'm unable to. No problem with raising your price or not playing there anymore, but not when there is already a verbal agreement. I'm surprised by the number of people that would think it's okay to cancel a gig to play elsewhere for more money after you already agreed to play his establishment.

Well what's good for the goose...
He cancelled gigs on them for B.S. reasons.

 

[pbass6811]

At this point, I'd agree with those that have said to move on. You've got enough time to give them fair notice and they should really have no problems finding another band to take a Thanksgiving Eve show. It doesn't really sound like this "relationship" is working out for anybody.

Here's the rub, if you cancel this gig and your remaining scheduled gigs, this bridge will, for all intents and purposes, be nuked, no matter how nicely or professionally you do it. You may want to keep that under consideration. Also, as mellowinman pointed out, that bar owner will probably make a point of making sure you guys don't get to play anywhere in that area. If there's no places around there you guys wanna play, no biggie, BUT, if there is, you can pretty much fuggedaboudit...

 

[pbass6811]

I agree with mellowinman, once I agree to a date and $ amount I play the gig unless I'm unable to. No problem with raising your price or not playing there anymore, but not when there is already a verbal agreement. I'm surprised by the number of people that would think it's okay to cancel a gig to play elsewhere for more money after you already agreed to play his establishment.

While I certainly agree that the axiom "you're only as good as your word" and if you reach an agreement, you should honor it, however, that has to go both ways. Not only has the venue cancelled shows that were already booked, but the pay was altered the second time they did get paid! If I have a 6-piece band and we agree on $1800, then I expect to paid $1800, even if I show up with a 5-piece band(assuming, of course, that the quality of the entertainment that I provide meets or exceeds the standard the 6-piece version was capable of.).

Can you cancel a gig a week or two in advance? Don't even think about it unless you are A) own the bar. B) landing an opening slot for Muse or Rush or The Red Hot Chili Peppers. C) wanting your reputation completely trashed by vindictive bar owners. D) all the above.

Can you cancel a gig 3 months in advance? Yeah, that should be doable. You're not gonna win any friends or influence any people, but that's enough time for everyone to recover. And if you offer to help them find a good replacement band, they may just keep you in the rotation instead of cutting you loose...

 

[Renaissance]

You made an agreement - do the gig. Someone else being unreliable has nothing to do with you being reliable. Two wrongs do not make a right.

If you were cancelling all of your gigs with this venue and giving plenty of notice I would say go for it. Cancelling one gig because you think you can get better money elsewhere is shaky behavior in my opinion.

Just my two cents but if you aren't getting paid for your gigs - that's your fault.

 

[FatBoutedGirls]

Someone else being unreliable has nothing to do with you being reliable. Two wrongs do not make a right.

This is my feeling as well.

 

[JohnMCA72]

Keep the gigs you've got, but don't book any more.

 

[hrodbert696]

You made an agreement - do the gig. Someone else being unreliable has nothing to do with you being reliable. Two wrongs do not make a right.

If you were cancelling all of your gigs with this venue and giving plenty of notice I would say go for it. Cancelling one gig because you think you can get better money elsewhere is shaky behavior in my opinion.

Just my two cents but if you aren't getting paid for your gigs - that's your fault.

I had the impression the OP was talking about cutting this venue loose altogether. He's talking about a gig three months from now and doesn't sound like they have any others scheduled at the place. So I think he is cancelling "all" of his gigs there with plenty of notice.