Mac or PC?

[aborgman]

The prices are not dramatically different if you factor in the features on the actual Mac. If you value power over those features, then that's good for you, but I do not.

We're talking about basically the same features.

Same screen size. Better video card. Same processor. Same RAM. Same HD.

The Mac has a nicer case, and comes with Firewire... that is pretty much it for an $1800 upcharge.

What you don't seem to understand is that YOU are not the average computer user. You are the same as my friends who like working on cars and get up my ass for getting a faster car and spending time working on it and crap. I don't want to do that. I want it to go from point A to point B as comfortably as possible. The end. I don't want to lift the hood ever if I can avoid it, and the same goes for computers for the vast majority of people.

In my experience Macs require work about half as often, but if there is a hardware failure of any sort - repairing it will be 5x as difficult and 2x as expensive.

 

[Horny Toad]

Firewire (or more appropriately IEEE 1394) is a very nice interface - but it was NEVER a standard.

Actually, it is a standard, just not the standard.

 

[NineSpine]

Actually I'd argue that as a percentage of population it isn't much different.

Sure - I'd see 8x as many virii on Windows boxes... but I was also supporting 8x as many Windows boxes.

In five years of repairing computers, someone came in with a Mac with a virus maybe four times tops. In that time, I saw thousands of PCs that were infected with all kinds of garbage. It wasn't uncommon for someone to have a computer totally overloaded a week or two after buying it, even with an antivirus installed. I've never seen a Mac totally overloaded with spyware so bad that it could barely load, but it's incredibly common for PCs. There's absolutely no comparison.

In fact, given that the vast majority of Mac users do not have an anti-virus program, you would think that there would be buckets of viruses pouring out for this target-rich environment... but they aren't. There has to be a reason for that.

 

[aborgman]

Actually, it is a standard, just not the standard.

Correct. What I meant to say was that Firewire was never standard.

IEEE 1394 is A standard...

 

[NineSpine]

We're talking about basically the same features.

Same screen size. Better video card. Same processor. Same RAM. Same HD.

The Mac has a nicer case, and comes with Firewire... that is pretty much it for an $1800 upcharge.

So did the laptop in question have all of this:

Large multitouch trackpad with click-anywhere
Magsafe power adapter
High quality backlit chicklet keyboard
Auto backlighting
Auto screen dimming
Full metal chassis with magnetic latching
Displayport
Very high quality webcam and screen

No, it didn't.

In my experience Macs require work about half as often, but if there is a hardware failure of any sort - repairing it will be 5x as difficult and 2x as expensive.

That's just not true.

 

[aborgman]

In five years of repairing computers, someone came in with a Mac with a virus maybe four times tops.

In my 20+ years repairing and supporting computers, I've seen so many virii on every platform that I can't even count them.

In that time, I saw thousands of PCs that were infected with all kinds of garbage.

Wait... was this a Geek Squad style "bring in your busted computer and we'll fix it" place? Because if so - you're talking about the very definition of "selection bias".

You're dealing with a population where Apple is outnumbered 9:1, and most Apple users with issues will haul their machine off to Apple service... I'd expect (given the same virus and failure rate) that a non-Apple service shop would probably see at least 95% Windows machines.

In fact, given that the vast majority of Mac users do not have an anti-virus program, you would think that there would be buckets of viruses pouring out for this target-rich environment... but they aren't. There has to be a reason for that.

They are pouring out... Leap-A, Boonana, Adobe hacks, and on and on... at about the rate they are part of the general population.

 

[L-A]

I disagree with both the "PCs suck" and the "Macs suck" arguments.

 

[NineSpine]

In my 20+ years repairing and supporting computers, I've seen so many virii on every platform that I can't even count them.



Wait... was this a Geek Squad style "bring in your busted computer and we'll fix it" place? Because if so - you're talking about the very definition of "selection bias".

You're dealing with a population where Apple is outnumbered 9:1, and most Apple users with issues will haul their machine off to Apple service... I'd expect (given the same virus and failure rate) that a non-Apple service shop would probably see at least 95% Windows machines.



They are pouring out... Leap-A, Boonana, Adobe hacks, and on and on... at about the rate they are part of the general population.

This was a private computer dealer and authorized service center for most major brands, including Apple at the time. They have since shored up their authorizations for repairs to be mostly themselves.

I open everything that comes into my e-mail. I wrecklessly click links and go to whatever websites pop up. I do absolutely nothing safe or the right way. In four years of using Macs, I have never had a virus. If I treated a Windows machine the same way, I'd be inundated in days.

My mom would get every single one of her computers loaded up with new spyware and adware and all sorts of garbage on a monthly basis. We switched her to a Mac two years ago and she hasn't had one since.

There's absolutely no comparison.

 

[warnergt]

Yep. Lots of them.

As someone who has worked in IT supporting Apple, MS, *nix, and various other flavors of fun - there are virii for all of them, and I've seen virii on all of them.

I'm calling BS on this claim.

Show us references for your "virii" on Mac OS X.

There are trojans (could happen to any platform) but I've never
seen or heard of any actual virus on Mac OS X.

 

[aborgman]

So did the laptop in question have all of this:

Large multitouch trackpad with click-anywhere

Yes. (Although I hate it and wish the thing had a pointing stick/trackpoint)

Magsafe power adapter

Not magsafe, but non-latching... so functionally equivalent.

High quality backlit chicklet keyboard

Backlit keyboard. Slightly worse touch feel, but better size/layout.

Auto backlighting

Yes.

Auto screen dimming

Yes. Just like the 1998 IBM Thinkpad I had. Not exactly a new or revolutionary feature.

Full metal chassis with magnetic latching

No... and the metal case is the one feature that Apple is significantly nicer on. My preference is FOR actual physical latching.

Displayport

Yes, I'm just dreaming of a non-standard display connector so that I have to buy special adapters to attach my laptop to anything...

Whereas my Dell had s-video out (no additional devices required), DVI out (no additional devices required), and VGA out (no additional devices required).

Personally, I'd rather have three industry standard video connection over one proprietary video connection that can do the same thing but requires additional external hardware.

Very high quality webcam and screen

Screen is mildly nicer on the Apple. Webcam? No such thing as high quality from anyone... it's a webcam.

That's just not true.

My experience isn't true? I must have been imagining it.

Ever put a network card in an SE-30? Worked on a slimline Quadra? Had to support a 24/7 lab of Mac II's and their rapidly self destructing power supplies? Swap hardware in an iMac G3?

 

[NineSpine]

Yes. (Although I hate it and wish the thing had a pointing stick/trackpoint)



Not magsafe, but non-latching... so functionally equivalent.




Backlit keyboard. Slightly worse touch feel, but better size/layout.




Yes.





Yes. Just like the 1998 IBM Thinkpad I had. Not exactly a new or revolutionary feature.




No... and the metal case is the one feature that Apple is significantly nicer on. My preference is FOR actual physical latching.



Yes, I'm just dreaming of a non-standard display connector so that I have to buy special adapters to attach my laptop to anything...

Whereas my Dell had s-video out (no additional devices required), DVI out (no additional devices required), and VGA out (no additional devices required).

Personally, I'd rather have three industry standard video connection over one proprietary video connection that can do the same thing but requires additional external hardware.




Screen is mildly nicer on the Apple. Webcam? No such thing as high quality from anyone... it's a webcam.





My experience isn't true? I must have been imagining it.

Ever put a network card in an SE-30? Worked on a slimline Quadra? Had to support a 24/7 lab of Mac II's and their rapidly self destructing power supplies? Swap hardware in an iMac G3?

Are you serious? The iMac G3 was discontinued EIGHT YEARS AGO! That's your example? For real?

I'd love you to link me that laptop by the way, because I'd like to order one.

EDIT: By the way, you might want to learn about how tenses work. When you say that Macs cost more to repair, it means they cost more NOW, not in the late 80s. Thank you for the best laugh out loud thing I've heard all week.

 

[3506string]

Personally I don't run antivirus or anti spy/malware. I run a vista system with all updates including security turned off. Once a month I check for vital software and hardware updates and scan for threats. Never get anything more than a low threat cookie or two.

I am happy with my PC. It is a compaq cq60 I got off ebay in pristine condition for $150. I did some research and upgraded the processor to a Intel t8300 2.4ghz dual core 3mb cache for $49 bucks also off of ebay. I have basic computing needs. Internet browsing, word processing, hobby audio and video editing, multimedia, and some multisim and pspice software. My computer does everything I need it to do without a problem.

Just trying to give some perspective from a satisfied pc owner as it seems that so many have slow, virus and spyware laden, confusing pc systems.

 

[kaputsport]

What sort of bells and whistles would you say a Mac has that a similarly configured PC doesn't that make it easier to use? I'm not being combative, I'd like to know.

-Touch Sensitive Gestures
-The ability to run ALL software from BOTH OS's
-Thunderbolt Support (High end monitors, drives, etc)
-Intuitive OS that most people (not IT guys) love

Honestly, aside from these examples, most PC guys will call BS and say this and that. To truly understand, you need to try one out. There are many awesome things about these machines, which IMHO make all the things I would do easier.

The pro apps all play very well together, and all the work apps play with Windows... On top of that, you can still run Windows if you want/need.

It is a WIN/WIN.

 

[kaputsport]

Webcam? No such thing as high quality from anyone... it's a webcam.

Apple ships with HD "webcams" standard now. FYI.

 

[Vic Winters]

Are you serious? The iMac G3 was discontinued EIGHT YEARS AGO! That's your example? For real?

I'd love you to link me that laptop by the way, because I'd like to order one.

EDIT: By the way, you might want to learn about how tenses work. When you say that Macs cost more to repair, it means they cost more NOW, not in the late 80s. Thank you for the best laugh out loud thing I've heard all week.

Battery replacement.

 

[aborgman]

I'm calling BS on this claim.

Show us references for your "virii" on Mac OS X.

You've never seen:

OSX.Leap.A
"Opener"
Renepo.B
OSX.Inqtana.a
OSX.Inqtana.b

There are trojans (could happen to any platform) but I've never
seen or heard of any actual virus on Mac OS X.

I have.

...and I'd say tossing out Trojans (and thus rootkits) is really limiting the field. 90+% of the malware today isn't virii - on any platform.

 

[aborgman]

Are you serious? The iMac G3 was discontinued EIGHT YEARS AGO! That's your example? For real?

It's one of my examples.

...and yes, I'm not 15. I've been repairing computers for a LONG time and judge the competitors on the entirety of that.

EDIT: By the way, you might want to learn about how tenses work. When you say that Macs cost more to repair, it means they cost more NOW, not in the late 80s. Thank you for the best laugh out loud thing I've heard all week.

They still cost more to repair.

Most common desktop PC (Mac or Windows) failure? Power supply. Price compare.

The newer Macs (due to using less proprietary hardware) are better - but they still don't offer nearly the bargain shopping on parts... and they invariably more difficult to tear apart.

 

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Speak with the department faculty as to what software they use. If your daughter has a career path in mind, have her reach out to people / employers in the field and ask what they use.

+1

That's a very sensible answer.

 

[aborgman]

-The ability to run ALL software from BOTH OS's

This is not a hardware or Apple feature. This is something that would be available on all x86 hardware if Apple didn't intentionally neuter their operating system.

-Thunderbolt Support (High end monitors, drives, etc)

If it beats out USB3 - useful. If Thunderbolt just ends up being another Firewire, not so much.

The pro apps all play very well together, and all the work apps play with Windows

Depends on the "pro app" in question.

If you're doing high end CAD or electronics design, a lot of pro apps don't play with OSX at all.

 

[aborgman]

Apple ships with HD "webcams" standard now. FYI.

Sure.

...and it's still a crappy low quality web cam.

Just like every other "HD" webcam out there.