I don't understand why people always advocate Linux are average computer users. It's not user friendly at all. It's a wonderful, wonderful OS for people who are into tweaking, but for everyone else it's a complete waste of time.
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Mac or PC?
- Thread starter gaudenti
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I don't understand why people always advocate Linux are average computer users. It's not user friendly at all. It's a wonderful, wonderful OS for people who are into tweaking, but for everyone else it's a complete waste of time.
Not saying that you're wrong or anything, but don't they say the same thing about the HDD and memory? Both of which are fairly easy to replace. Also, last time I cracked open my MacBook Pro, the battery looked very much removable but I didn't have the proper size screwdriver to take it out myself.
They sold hackintosh computers to the masses. I can see Apple having a problem with a third-party selling their own OS.
I think anyone with a fair degree of tech know-how can replace the batteries, HD, mem, etc. My brother recently replaced the battery in his iPhone. Apple tries to make the job sound as difficult as open heart valve replacement. It's not. At all.
The memory might not be any harder to replace than a windows laptop, but replacing the hard drive is ridiculous, you have to disassemble nearly the whole computer, and put it back together, after you buy a set of tools. An unskilled person has no chance.
Can't say about the battery, I have no experience with the built-in ones. But Apple support says no.
C'mon, replacing the HDD isn't all that, lol! On the Unibody Macbook Pro's you remove a total of 12 screws. In total you remove two parts, the bottom of the laptop and the HDD "lock." In fact, it's easier to get to the HDD in the newer MBPs than the older ones and the older ones still weren't all that either. All it takes is a little precision. I think you only need a T6 for like two screws and one of those is pretty cheap. The battery has a pull tab (like the stock HDD) and is held down by 2-3 T-type screws so I'm assuming that it is indeed removable it just takes a little more effort than the older models.
Personally, I think an unskilled person has no business messing with any computer hardware unless they have a helping hand (be it a person on online resource) anyway. It's up to them whether they want to pay someone to do it or to figure it out themselves. I chose the latter.
I've had Ubuntu on this computer for roughly a year. It's pretty darn similar to mainstream platforms and has required utterly no tweaking. My kids sat down with Linux and started using it with no coaching. They haven't managed to screw it up.
Linux does attract a lot of users who are into tweaking, and there are distro's that the tweakers prefer. It's also possible that some advanced apps require more effort to set up, but that's outside of my wheelhouse.
With that said, "user friendly" is subjective, so I certainly can't dismiss your experience.
In my view, the beauty of Linux is that you can try it on your system for free, without actually installing it. You can also try out Windows or Mac versions of most open-source software titles. So Linux doesn't really need "advocacy," except perhaps to keep people informed of how much it's improved in the past few years.
At the present time, I would only send a kid to college with a Linux PC if they were fairly self-sufficient and assertive, because it will be hard to get support. More and more of the business of college (submitting assignments, taking quizzes, registering for courses) is done online against deadlines using Web based apps that have probably not been adequately vetted on Linux clients. That's not a good environment for trying anything new.
You know, I think I get it. I entered the thread intending to be a voice of reason between the inevitable bashing of either brand. I use both PCs and Macs regularly and prefer Macs and I had hoped to try and calm, at least somewhat, the everlasting storm that is Mac vs. PC but the more of the thread I read the more I just want to fiercely my Macs, lol. More evidence to support my theory that whenever you open a new Apple product, the box releases some sort of psychotropic drug 
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- Jun 25, 2006
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- Owner, Pike Amplification & 3Leaf Audio
The most trouble I had replacing my macbook pro's hard drive was figuring out if it voids your warranty (it doesn't). Every "genius" I asked had a different answer. Replacing the battery yourself most definitely does void your warranty.
That much, I'm sure of. What I wonder is how they can tell that you did it and not a Apple Authorized Service Provider. I'm sure they have their ways, I'm just curious.
For those folks with Windows laptops how would you say your battery performance is? I always wondered if the built-in battery was worth the extra cost of repair.
Man, that's hard to judge, because it depends so much on usage. I've never worried about the battery on my "work" computer unless I'm running something like continuous data acquisition. It's a Dell with a removable battery.
In my view, the problem with the removable battery is simply providing space for a "box within a box" to store the battery, and that space might be critical if you're trying to make a system small.
Dell computers seem to have "removable everything," but I think it's mainly so they can offer an array of options. For instance they offer different sizes of batteries. I've noticed that the PC makers engage in short term price competition by adding and removing options from their basic systems. If you want a particular set of options (once upon a time a DVD burner in my case), you wait until that set of options is the package deal of the week.
I know you're not making that argument, and I respect that. But I wouldn't say nobody ever makes it by any means. The "Mac all the way" posts with no qualifiers are a staple of computer threads on TB (not just this one).
Fair enough, thanks for the info. This is something to keep in mind when shopping.
I may have used the wrong wording regarding your advice. However, I still do not enjoy working on computers at all. My experience was that the Dell was pretty low-maintenance for 8 years. It contrasts with some of the horror stories posted here, which may be unfairly generalized by some to be the typical PC experience.
Unless she needed some wacky program that only runs on PC I'd get a mac, she can facetime with you guys or your IPhone or iChat LoL!
I've gone all mac for the past 7 years, wouldn't go back if you paid me
BTW, macs are working machines, they don't come with minesweeper or solitaire, granted you can get them now, but they have to be purchased, so maybe she'll focus on her studies more...
I think she might encounter fewer techy questions with a mac like, "my wireless on my PC will not work with this network!"... So it will keep her from asking attractive guys for advice....
Macs are totally easy to service yourself from changing HD's, optical drives, and adding RAM, done it in all of mine...
Still have my first mac. PowerBook G4 1.5 ghz, 1.5 gigs RAM...circa 2004
I've gone all mac for the past 7 years, wouldn't go back if you paid me
BTW, macs are working machines, they don't come with minesweeper or solitaire, granted you can get them now, but they have to be purchased, so maybe she'll focus on her studies more...
I think she might encounter fewer techy questions with a mac like, "my wireless on my PC will not work with this network!"... So it will keep her from asking attractive guys for advice....
Macs are totally easy to service yourself from changing HD's, optical drives, and adding RAM, done it in all of mine...
Still have my first mac. PowerBook G4 1.5 ghz, 1.5 gigs RAM...circa 2004
Last thing I want to say. I find that the purchase of an Apple computer will allow you to use that same hardware for many years, and many generations of OS, and never miss a beat.
With a PC, every time a new OS is released, an upgrade to your hardware has to be done (with in reason). It is not 100% accurate, but I would say at least 50% of the hardware out there right now, that is still using Windows XP, could not have a hope in hell using Windows 7 (or should I say vista, service pack 2)
Add to that, software choices are easier, and cheaper.
OSX 10.7 Lion: $29
Windows 7:
-Premium $119.99
-Professional $199.99
-Ultimate $219.99
Now, these are bare prices for NEW installs, legal software from the manufacturer. Sure, Newegg and many other sites will have discounted rates, but not Ultimate for $29, like Apple does.
Also, the argument regarding pricing out a new PC vs Mac and saying the Mac is over priced are BS. If you take a person with no computer or software and go shopping, you will spend more on the PC, even for the basics. I have done it with laptops, and desktops... Store bought and home built.
If you add in brand new software, and purchase everything retail, the Apple is cheaper for comparable specs, and to add to that, you can still install and use windows with your apple, which you CANNOT do (without buying specific, and according to everyone here, outdated hardware).
Here is the Macbook Pro, priced at $1499... Bone Stock.
OSX 10.7, with iLife
2.7GHz Dual-core Intel Core i7
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
500GB Serial ATA Drive @ 5400 rpm
SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
Backlit Keyboard (English) & User's Guide
Add iWork for $79
Add and Airport Extreme Base station with AirPrint for $179
Printer is free for students most times...
Total: $1,757
Comparable PC:
(Just for the sake of argument, the ONLY laptop at new egg with an i7 processor and Windows Ultimate costs $2100....)
Here is what I found that is comparable to the Apple...
Newegg.com - ThinkPad Edge E220s (50382NU) Notebook Intel Core i7 2617M(1.50GHz) 12.5" 4GB Memory DDR3 1333 320GB HDD 7200rpm Intel HD Graphics 3000
Priced at $939, adding Office brings us to...
$1,149.98
Add a 500GB harddrive to match specs... Average price is $100
Wireless router with print server: $134.99 (on sale)
Video Editing software: Sony Vegas Platinum HD $99
Audio recording software: Sony Sound Forge 10 $61.99 (On Sale)
Picture Editing Software: Adobe PS and Elements: $129.99
Total: $1,675.95
So the PC is cheaper... By $81.05...
Oh, I forgot Anti-Virus software, Anti Spyware software and a software firewall...
I rest my case.
Well *I* would buy a Mac but I'm not a biology student. I've been using Apple since the Apple IIe with the green screen and the giant floppies. Currently I am still using a G4 that's pre-Intel and it works great! I run everything on there, Photoshop, Illustrator, Final Cut Pro, Logic Express, etc. I've had it since about 2000, so I'm suspecting it's 11 years old. In 11 years I've never had a virus and I only had a big issue once where the Mac Geniuses told me I needed a new computer (they called mine a "classic") but actually I didn't and I got an IT friend to fix it. After 11 years I'm thinking that I'm finally nearing the time where I need to upgrade because I can't use any of the new operating systems because they are for Intel Macs only and the software I can use are all old versions. The new iMacs and towers are much more snappy than mine, but Samantha and I have been through a lot together and I hate to give her up when she still has life in her.
Plus, I spent 10 years in the advertising industry where Macs are the standard for writing, design, editing and recording.
Personally, if I were going to college now I'd just bring my iPad and my keyboard plus a compatible printer. But that's just me, traveling light
My iPad runs a Microsoft Word, Excel and Power Point editor, iMovie, Garageband and iTunes. I can't see how I'd need much else!
Plus, I spent 10 years in the advertising industry where Macs are the standard for writing, design, editing and recording.
Personally, if I were going to college now I'd just bring my iPad and my keyboard plus a compatible printer. But that's just me, traveling light
My iPad runs a Microsoft Word, Excel and Power Point editor, iMovie, Garageband and iTunes. I can't see how I'd need much else!
- Jun 25, 2006
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- Disclosures
- Owner, Pike Amplification & 3Leaf Audio
What planet are you living on? Solidworks isn't on the mac, and neither are PRO/E and most of the Autodesk suite (namely Inventor). You're hurting if you run CAD on a mac. None of the major PCB software runs under mac OS either.
I made a pricing-out post earlier in the thread regarding desktops and my numbers are not "BS", thank you very much. I didn't make them up. Nor did I say Macs were overpriced, I only calculated the price difference as a percentage.
I stated he runs them on a mac, I never ONCE stated that he ran all of them in OSX.
One example.
Invalid Link Removed
Taking anything personal in this discussion will get you no where quick.
While your 1 example may have been different, other examples are showing the opposite results.
Reread what I said. Even up, most times you will come out even in terms of starting over (mac to PC or PC to Mac).
If you have purchased tons of software and plan to use it again, then you will save money with a PC in some cases. For a new machine, buying the OS with a clean install and purchasing every piece of software the Apple comes with you will find you are getting close to the same price in a retail environment. I have done these comparisons year after year and it is all the same stuff.
Honestly, if you PC is cheaper, and that is the most important thing to you, go for it. I could care less what you own, and work with. I would rather our market share stay down anyway. Let all the PC guys complain about iTunes when syncing their iPods and iPhones, and running anti-virus software (or surfing so carefully you could produce diamonds in your puckered butt hole).
Not to mention, with the Mac, you get all sorts of additional features to compliment you iOS devices, and functionality with other things like Apple TV.
This is a debate which will never be solved, as every camp has people that will tell you different things, and at the end of the day, it is your call.
You want reliable, rock solid performance from your OS, with minimal future expense to upgrade the OS, built in free POWERFUL software, elegant looks and functionality the intuitive interface can give without having multiple "safe guards" running, or having to make sure that link you received isn't sending you into the depths of internet hell... Get a mac.
If you like BSOD, driver downloads, inconsistent versions of software, dime a dozen design with corners so cut it looks and feels like a cheap POS, expensive OS's with many "upgrades" in your future, and the constant need to fix this, defrag that, clean this, repair that.... Stick with a PC.
But again, I really don't care. Every time I use my mac, I enjoy the experience, and feel a sense of joy that I know it'll work today, tomorrow and for years to come... And if I feel the need to dabble in anything from the dark side of Washington, I can do so without any new hardware, software or worry.
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