Major or relative minor key question

[ProgRocker]

I've been wondering lately how one tells if a piece of music is written in a Major key, or its relative minor? So, if the key signature is 3 flats (for example), what if anything would tip me off that it was written in Eb Major instead of C minor, or vice versa?

I've always wondered about this but never really addressed it before as people usually will tell you what key they're in. Should I assume it's in the Major key unless told otherwise?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Slevage]

Are you talking about when you actually play it? With a little experience, it will become obvious to your ear.

If you are looking at a sheet of music, what’s the first chord? Last chord? Bridge section?

If the music is not “typical” or “main stream”, you have to look for musical centers of the piece.

 

[SteveCS]

The first port of call is your ears - the difference between major and minor is usually quite obvious. From music written in standard notation,look for an accidental on the leading tone, which in the minor key will be the 3rd of the dominant chord. If there is an accidental, it is normally a safe bet that the key is minor. But the final arbiter has to be your ears.

 

[bholder]

Just go by your ear let the tonal center and the flavor of the melody inform you which it is .... Doesn't matter so much if you get it wrong.

 

[bass player 53]

The tonality of the music is an
important clue.
Does the piece sound major or
minor to you? If you can’t tell
the difference, you should explore
what that means.
Some music has both major and
minor sections. The music
can start or finish with either one.

Also, the ending note of the melody
is usually a strong clue.
In your example, does the melody
end on an ‘E flat’, which would be
major, or end on a ‘C’, which would
be minor.

There are no major or minor
key signatures. As you are surmising,
there is major and it’s relative minor.
I won’t get into the topic of
enharmonic equivalents.

 

[Lobster11]

This question is a good reminder that "key" and "key signature" are two very different things. In theory, they aren't even related to each other: You could (in theory) write out the music for a song in any key using any key signature. In practice, of course, they do tend to be related, as the key of the song usually dictates what key signature it can most easily be written and read in -- i.e., with the fewest accidentals. As I suggested recently in another thread, a lot of confusion could be avoided if we called the "key signature" something like the "notation signature" instead.

 

[Wasnex]

Let's consider the keys of C major VS A minor.
1. A minor will have a tendency to raise the 7th and possibly the 6th scale degrees. So look/listen for F# and G#
2. Functional music uses different types of cadences that point to the key center. The raised 7th (G#) in A minor is the Major 3rd for the dominant V7 chord shape. In this case chord tones are E,G#,B,D. You don't always see/here a V to I or V to i cadence. AFAIK ii V is more common, and still strongly implies the I or i. V chords tend to be Major triads or dominant 7 chords. Other chords can have a dominant function though. Sorry...there is a lot to learn...way more than I know.

The two factors above don't always point you in the right direction as a song could use a harmonic structure that does not conform to Major or Minor. Here's an article: Modal Schemas – Open Music Theory

Blues has it's own set of rules. For major blues, I7, IV7, and V7 are all dominant-shaped chords.

I assume there are other styles of music that have their own peculiar harmonic structures. Additionally music can rely on characteristic harmonic sequences that are not functional.

Functional basically refers to how chords function within the structure of major or minor key centers. ii has a tendency to go to V. V has a tendency to go to I etc.


Non-diatonic chords are non-functional. It only takes one altered chord tone.

 

[mambo4]

what if anything would tip me off that it was written in Eb Major instead of C minor, or vice versa?

not foolproof but a frequently accurate rule of thumb:
if the piece ends on an Eb chord ,or one of those notes it's Eb
if it ends on C minor chord or one those notes, it's in C minor

But generally , as @SteveCS mentions , your ears will tell , you.

 

[Lefty Joe]

I've been wondering lately how one tells if a piece of music is written in a Major key, or its relative minor? So, if the key signature is 3 flats (for example), what if anything would tip me off that it was written in Eb Major instead of C minor, or vice versa?

I've always wondered about this but never really addressed it before as people usually will tell you what key they're in. Should I assume it's in the Major key unless told otherwise?

Thanks in advance.

1. Yes: the default is major. If someone says it's in C, then it's C major.
2. The only difference between a minor scale and a major scale is which step is musically central to the piece. A minor and C major are the same in terms of notes used, but not musical intent or feeling -- like making two different poems out of of the same group of words.
3. When in doubt, use your ears to play what sounds right. You're a musician

 

[timmus]

But generally , as @SteveCS mentions , your ears will tell , you.

I worked with a person a few years ago that was taking a music appreciation class in college. She knew I was a musician so she asked me to show her how to know if certain music pieces she was supposed to listen to were in a minor key or a major key.

Trying as hard as I could to show her, she simply couldn't hear the difference. I even brought a cheap keyboard I had into work to show her and so she could hear the difference...nope. She just couldn't hear it.

I keep forgetting that I grew up playing music since I was five years old so knowing what a major/minor key sounds like, only by sound, comes to me like second nature.

She came into my cubicle a week or two later. I asked her if she was able to hear the difference yet...she told me she bailed out of the class....

I told my wife this who happens to be a singer. She told me her voice teacher in high school couldn't sing harmonies ad lib. She had to be able to read the music in front of her to sing the harmonies. How does one get a degree in Music Ed and not know how to sing harmonies off the cuff?

I talked to my son who does have a Master's Music Ed degree. He said that most people in a music ed program don't ever get to learn it...He said he could almost always tell when his students attended a singing church as kids because they could almost always pick out a harmony ad lib.

 

[SJan3]

I've been wondering lately how one tells if a piece of music is written in a Major key, or its relative minor? So, if the key signature is 3 flats (for example), what if anything would tip me off that it was written in Eb Major instead of C minor, or vice versa?

I've always wondered about this but never really addressed it before as people usually will tell you what key they're in. Should I assume it's in the Major key unless told otherwise?

Thanks in advance.

I would say, where does the composition resolve? Cm or EbMaj?
Sometimes a tune can be ambiguous as in going from relative minor to major and back or never hinting at more than major or minor. This doesn't account for modulations which may occur but to keep it simple, listen for resolution in phrases.

 

[DaBigBadaBoom]

Never heard a song in Am that starts with a C chord, or a song in C that starts on Am.

Modal rules apply as far as I've ever learned.

 

[FullumMusic]

Where does it resolve?

Also, in some ways it kinda doesn't matter? They're different ways of saying the same thing. Calling 1 - 4 - 5 in A Minor, or calling 6 -2 - 3 in C Major are the same thing. Some people prefer one way, others the other. Sometimes it's incredibly helpful to know if the composer's intention is the song being in the minor or major key. Other times it's obvious by how the song sounds and where the resolve to the tonic is. And other times, it is kinda ambiguous and that's fine.

 

[Whousedtoplay]

Is Fugees - Killing me Softly - in the key of E minor or G major?
Google says does not have consistent answer.
"G major - original published key."
"Killing Me Softly is written in the key of Em."

 

[JamesGrant]

Is Fugees - Killing me Softly - in the key of E minor or G major?
Google says does not have consistent answer.
"G major - original published key."
"Killing Me Softly is written in the key of Em."View attachment 7401115View attachment 7401116

Personally, I’d say it spends more time in the minor key than the major.

I just looked up the music again and read that the verse is circle of 5ths counter-clockwise which I’d not noticed myself before, which is neat, you could argue that each ‘movement’ round the circle is its own key - like an Autumn Leafs type arrangement.

But. The main thing that pushes it into minor key for me is that it sounds melancholic with occasional glimpses of major key.

Hope this is interesting!

 

[bass player 53]

Never heard a song in Am that starts with a C chord, or a song in C that starts on Am.

Modal rules apply as far as I've ever learned.

If your point is minor to major,
or major to minor, here is
an example.

Having to be in C or Am in
particular is not relevant to
the OP’s question.

The OP’s question has more
to do with recognizing major
and minor, and are clues given
by a key signature, written
or stated.

Chopin Ballade #2 starts in F major
and ends in A minor.
Yes, A minor is not the relative
minor of F.

There are many other examples.

Listen for yourself:

 

[SJan3]

I worked with a person a few years ago that was taking a music appreciation class in college. She knew I was a musician so she asked me to show her how to know if certain music pieces she was supposed to listen to were in a minor key or a major key.

Trying as hard as I could to show her, she simply couldn't hear the difference. I even brought a cheap keyboard I had into work to show her and so she could hear the difference...nope. She just couldn't hear it.

I keep forgetting that I grew up playing music since I was five years old so knowing what a major/minor key sounds like, only by sound, comes to me like second nature.

She came into my cubicle a week or two later. I asked her if she was able to hear the difference yet...she told me she bailed out of the class....

I told my wife this who happens to be a singer. She told me her voice teacher in high school couldn't sing harmonies ad lib. She had to be able to read the music in front of her to sing the harmonies. How does one get a degree in Music Ed and not know how to sing harmonies off the cuff?

I talked to my son who does have a Master's Music Ed degree. He said that most people in a music ed program don't ever get to learn it...He said he could almost always tell when his students attended a singing church as kids because they could almost always pick out a harmony ad lib.

Proof that not everyone is born with musical talent yet they can understand theory. When in music school, I played with a trumpet player who was a strong theory student but he just couldn't improvise because he didn't have good ears. I felt for him because he wanted it so badly but he wasn't a good performer. He would however make a good elementary music theory teacher. We all have varying limits.

 

[SJan3]

Where does it resolve?

Also, in some ways it kinda doesn't matter? They're different ways of saying the same thing. Calling 1 - 4 - 5 in A Minor, or calling 6 -2 - 3 in C Major are the same thing. Some people prefer one way, others the other. Sometimes it's incredibly helpful to know if the composer's intention is the song being in the minor or major key. Other times it's obvious by how the song sounds and where the resolve to the tonic is. And other times, it is kinda ambiguous and that's fine.

The melody may dictate whether or not it matters. As we know, minor keys can utilize natural, harmonic or melodic minor scales. That melody is a clue to what key we're in.

 

[timmus]

Proof that not everyone is born with musical talent yet they can understand theory. When in music school, I played with a trumpet player who was a strong theory student but he just couldn't improvise because he didn't have good ears. I felt for him because he wanted it so badly but he wasn't a good performer. He would however make a good elementary music theory teacher. We all have varying limits.

Yep, I am SO glad my High School music teacher taught us how to improvise. He didn't make all of us learn, only those that wanted to. I signed up in a heartbeat. I am forever indebted to him for this. He was a clarinetist and played in the Army Jazz band for over 20 years...he was friggin' amazing!

I already had a grasp of improvisation as a trombonist listening to Big Band and Dixieland jazz as a kid and learning to play along with it without a lead sheet but he helped me take it to another level.

I auditioned for a spot in the Navy musician program and was accepted but went into electronics instead...probably a smart move.

 

[ryco]

Gonna go out on a limb here and say pay attention to the v chord. Is it Dominant? Is it Dominant V7 without any accidentals modifying the chord?; = which a lot of times is going to lead to the I; if it has accidentals going to lead to the i. This is just something I would do if scanning wriiten music. Otherwise, as has been mentioned many times in the posts above, it's an aural determination.