"Making it" internationally

[Heiwa]

I know there is some level of advantage in being American in certain places, in the same way that I would pursue a "decent" looking Swedish girl over her "hot" American friends at the bar.

Really?

Many around the world idolize American music, movies, TV shows, etc so it's natural to think you might have some additional opportunities as a foreigner in those fields.

So you want offer yourself as a "gimmick" for a local band or artist to use?
Being american doesn´t make you better or more adequate for a certain genre nowadays. The world is full of amazing musicians and internet takes them anywhere..

 

[31HZ]

Subscribed, because I want to see you succeed at doing this.

 

[djmay]

@woodsracer you should not consider anywhere in the EU for teaching English. Your other qualifications could possibly work there, providing you are unique for the position. EU citizens have first priority for any job and non-EU citizens can be hired only after a search in all EU countries or if the individual has unique skills that are not available. This means that the employer must write a justification to the local labor office and then be approved.

I mentioned Ukraine because I have been involved with some projects. Last week I was specifically told about the need for teachers. And the first priority is weapons; you might be useful with that.

 

[Dynacord]

@woodsracer you should not consider anywhere in the EU for teaching English. Your other qualifications could possibly work there, providing you are unique for the position. EU citizens have first priority for any job and non-EU citizens can be hired only after a search in all EU countries or if the individual has unique skills that are not available. This means that the employer must write a justification to the local labor office and then be approved.

I mentioned Ukraine because I have been involved with some projects. Last week I was specifically told about the need for teachers. And the first priority is weapons; you might be useful with that.

Also, at least where I am, there are a lot of people from the UK who were in residence before Brexit and an exception was made for them to be able to stay - so there are quite a few native speakers who already have legal residency/work rights. My son is at university studying engineering and maritime navigation - tons of physics and engineering classes and technical English. Physics is also common at the high school level and every big city with embassies and big corporate offices has international schools teaching in English so there could be opportunities there.

You're right on Ukraine. I've been there quite a few times and even before the war it was clearly lagging Poland in English speakers. Certainly many opportunities there with anything military related. I know a number of people working with hospitals - supplies as well as psychological and physical rehabilitation. Heavy but meaningful work. The Lviv/Lwów area is really nice and relatively far from the war.

 

[mcnach]

And getting paid under the table is really rare today, at least in my experience. Almost all venues want an invoice of one kind or another and payment is more and more often electronic rather than a wad of cash from behind the bar.

It depends on the kind of gig and where.

Big money gigs... no way. Paper trail, invoices, bank accounts... it'll be all legal.

Bar gigs? And even some festivals? A lot of it is done on the down low today, certainly in the UK and in Spain.

 

[turf3]

It depends on the kind of gig and where.

Big money gigs... no way. Paper trail, invoices, bank accounts... it'll be all legal.

Bar gigs? And even some festivals? A lot of it is done on the down low today, certainly in the UK and in Spain.

Sure, you can imagine the Beatles in Hamburg. But they were about 20 years old, and they slept in racks in the basement. Overall they probably didn't net much money at all.

 

[Minimalist]

With your skill set I am sure there are opportunities out there. Every rule can be circumvented. Put in your job requirement a PHD, native speaker and x years experience with a US defense contractor and the pool of candidates is a lot smaller. The bigger obstacles would be any local requirements or certificates.

One opportunity could also be teaching on a US base. That's typically considered US territory.

 

[mr80htz]

Sorry, wasn't sure what forum to post this to! Please move if necessary.

I'm about to make some big changes in my life and have been considering teaching English abroad for a while, and during that time trying to secure regular gigs with the intention of doing that full time instead of teaching if I can make it work. I'm not delusional, I know that might prove to be very difficult, but as an American bassist with skills and experience playing a lot of different stuff over the years, I may potentially have a leg up on the competition. Or maybe not! I have been to 24 countries but have never been truly immersed for longer than a few weeks. It would be a killer life adventure to at least give it a shot, as I love to travel and learn about cultures but also love playing music!!

So the question is, are there certain places in the world where I might have the best chances? I am willing (and able for the most part) to play a ton of genres so I'm hoping to leave that out of the considerations here, especially because any decent sized city is going to have a good variety going on (I would think!). Are there certain places that may have a dearth/scarcity of bassists? Places that would idealize having an American dude in their band to up my chances of success?

I'm looking at Japan, Korea, and Spain right now but would like suggestions! East Asia would be an awesome experience and I feel might give me the best advantage for being the "exotic" musician which might give me more chances for tryouts and stuff, and they also pay well and often include housing to teach English. But I'd rely on them speaking decent English in the band setting which could be problematic in Japan especially. Spain would be awesome because I speak some Spanish and would put effort into becoming fluent, but they don't pay that well for teachers. Cost of living is also less there though, so gotta weigh all the options, but I want to try to figure out where the best opportunities might be. Just for perspective, I hate K pop but if I could make money (and meet tons of ladies doing it) I would totally be down!!

Just started looking into the TEFL certifications to teach and considering cost of living and all that, just ideas right now. Maybe the answer is it's tough to make it anywhere in the world no matter who you are, but hopefully some of you might have some relevant music experience to share!

One of my current groups, playing some reggae/hiphop originals a few days ago:

If you want to do this profesionally, you have to learn the language of the country you are in. I lived in Seoul and played gigs there. Very little pay. Lots of foreigners teaching English and many play music. You probably won't stand out unless you are a phenom musician. Even then, this industry is all about networking. There's deffinitly places and people to play with but if you want bass playing to be your thing, yeah, learn the language. Be prepared to be very poor. It will also be achallenge finding a long term romantic partner in Korea if you are a foreigner. They people there encourge dating of foreigners but when it's time to marry and have kids, you will get dumped most of the time. Just the way it is. If you do spend years in an east Asian country doing this and doing well, you will always be a foreigner and will be treated as such. Good luck

 

[ardgedee]

Just a little background, I am 37...

I showed this thread to a native South Korean and they laughed when they hit this line. The music industry there (society generally) is incredibly ageist. About the only way you would have a chance there now is if you were already famous somewhere else.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

...Good musicians are everywhere; you are unlikely to be a standout, if you are not a standout now...

This ^

It's the Information Age, I don't think there's much to impress people with these days simply by being an American in general. One could also argue that some negativity may ensue from divulging your heritage as "American"

 

[callofcthulhu]

I showed this thread to a native South Korean and they laughed when they hit this line. The music industry there (society generally) is incredibly ageist. About the only way you would have a chance there now is if you were already famous somewhere else.

No shot at being some rising starlet's oppa huh?

 

[phangtonpower]

Yes, I agree; living costs are much lower in the rural areas, and distance is no problem because of the excellent transportation network.

Trust me, the inaka does not have excellent transportation system. You need a car where I live.

 

[phangtonpower]

I live in the country side of Japan. Way different from the cities. During my time here I've met 2 pro foreign musicians. One lives in Tokyo and teaches English and guitar when he doesn't have proper gigs. Second moved back home, opened up a studio, and is doing well.
But every ones situation is different, so who knows what can happen.

 

[Ultradust]

I've been a professional musician in Seoul for a few decades now, and tend to be a realist when it comes to these sorts of frank questions...Korea is not Japan, and it's certainly not Disneyland. And it's been a red ocean for professional work in applied music arts, for decades now.

But hey, if you have a four-year degree from one of the qualifying seven English speaking nations (you already more than qualify), are good at communication and working with kids in education, and happen to be a musician, it can be fun in the very short term to teach English and bump around with clubs bands on the weekend...it's an easier way through the door than fishing for a job in your professional field, even though it may not be what you'd prefer to do.

But for a myriad of cultural-linguistic reasons, Westerners in general don't get on especially well with an extended residence here, and age (read: being over the age of 30) plus not being fluent in the language can make both meaningful socializing and securing a job in most fields of non-English-teaching work extremely difficult, getting sponsored by a company to obtain the correct visa on top of that being not easy either. Suffice to say, I wouldn't recommend South Korea in this specific case, for a number of reasons others have already mentioned.

And quite coincidentally, I was asked a similar question recently on Quora, specifically relating to a young bassist's inquiry. In short, I told him he should probably come here to get plugged in while studying Korean (being a younger fellow), but other points may nonetheless apply:

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And there are ways to meet locals and be a part of the bustling Hongdae live scene, just as hundreds of non-Korean musicians have done in the past. Seoul even has a small but long-running ska scene, including 1st gen. Jamaican ska/calypso-style Kingston Rudieska and a few other bands. But making money as a non-local musician is quite difficult to do right off the bat, and issues of taxation have to be additionally sorted out, under the correct visa.

Dislike K-pop? So does most of the hungry, live-performing Hongdae scene

But if a year off or so to do something different is what you have in mind, spending one's "belated gap year" in Seoul or Busan can be a refreshing change for the time being. Keeping one's expectations low and learning to coexist in a society that is culturally the opposite of that of North America in so many ways may be a challenge, but that's pretty much the reason why I've loved living here for the past 32+ years.

tl;dr Korea is certainly not for everyone