Marcus Miller's tone....secret revealed?

[Brad Johnson]

This could indeed be true of 5-stringers but I'm an old-timer 4-stringer funk player where four is enough for me. So having thinner strings thins out the sound even if boosting left and right.

In all seriousness, I learned this on four strings. And I may be as old time a funk player as you.


In the late 70's/very early 80's, before decent fives were easy to find, I detuned fours to BEAD. The last was an aluminum necked headless Kramer Duke I got in 1981. I did not use super thick strings, my "B's" were typically around .110. I learned alot about string control with those basses and it's stuck with me all of these years. And to this day I hear fives with .130+ B strings that don't sound as deep and full as my .120 - .125 strung basses.

I know that might seem counterintuitive, which is probably why more folks don't do it/attempt it.

 

[gimmeagig]

This has actually turned into a really nice thread.
Here's something about using the onboard preamp that I started doing recently.
I used to dial in the treble at about half and the bass at 1/3rd (Sadowsky pre) and then dial in the amp to that. Lately I'm just opening the pre with 10% treble and a little less than that on bass.That seems to make it a lot easier to get the sound out of my amp.I get the sizzle without harshness and I'm not loosing the punch that I need to cut through the mix.
I guess I should thought of that sooner.I was creating a smiley face curve with the bass and I don't like the way that sounds on amps so why would it be different with the bass.

 

[Brad Johnson]

You're ahead of the game now. Many haven't figured out that it probably makes more sense to start from a neutral position with your bass, bring you amp up to where it'll need to be for the occassion and then, tweak if necessary.

With a boost only pre, start with it rolled off. With a cut and boost pre, start in neither boost nor cut positions, typically the middle on an EQ control. And if you have a passive tone control which only rolls off highs (cuts), start with it wide open. These are all the most neutral, off position in most cases.

 

[gimmeagig]

You're ahead of the game now. Many haven't figured out that it probably makes more sense to start from a neutral position with your bass, bring you amp up to where it'll need to be for the occassion and then, tweak if necessary.

With a boost only pre, start with it rolled off. With a cut and boost pre, start in neither boost nor cut positions, typically the middle on an EQ control. And if you have a passive tone control which only rolls off highs (cuts), start with it wide open. These are all the most neutral, off position in most cases.

And it only took me 30 years to figure that one out

 

[Brad Johnson]

It's taken many folks even longer not to.

 

[chadds]

It's taken many folks even longer not to.

Please folks! Understand what Brad has just said.

 

[musicman5string]

Ask Peter Muller how is it possible for him to sound so much like Marcus.


Invalid Link Removed

I was going to let this one go....I swear I tried, but in the end I'm just too much of an *******.
I listened. I really wanted to find an angle where I was like "ok, he's doing the Marcus thing but he also has his own vibe goin as well"...
Nope. Carbon copy. Played well, mind you. Real well. Production= great. Players= great. Artistic integrity/originality= zero.
Come on man. Really?
I don't want to say much more, other than: can you imagine Patitucci, Haslip, Willis, Garrison, etc. etc. listeing to this guy? *** are they gonna say? "Wow this is great; never heard this before"?? They're gonna be like "Who's the Marcus wanna-be?"
I don't care if Marcus himself liked it; Marcus is
1. a millionaire
2. a musical legend who is probably flattered by imitation
3. started and is identified with that whole sound and vibe
4. only benefits from this kind of thing:
Someone hears Marcus copy on radio
"Honey I love the new Marcus CD"
Buys CD
Marcus profits
imitation guy gets nothing

Sorry. Nice sound and playing, but what a horrible way to live.

 

[narud]

I was going to let this one go....I swear I tried, but in the end I'm just too much of an *******.
I listened. I really wanted to find an angle where I was like "ok, he's doing the Marcus thing but he also has his own vibe goin as well"...
Nope. Carbon copy. Played well, mind you. Real well. Production= great. Players= great. Artistic integrity/originality= zero.
Come on man. Really?
I don't want to say much more, other than: can you imagine Patitucci, Haslip, Willis, Garrison, etc. etc. listeing to this guy? *** are they gonna say? "Wow this is great; never heard this before"?? They're gonna be like "Who's the Marcus wanna-be?"
I don't care if Marcus himself liked it; Marcus is
1. a millionaire
2. a musical legend who is probably flattered by imitation
3. started and is identified with that whole sound and vibe
4. only benefits from this kind of thing:
Someone hears Marcus copy on radio
"Honey I love the new Marcus CD"
Buys CD
Marcus profits
imitation guy gets nothing

Sorry. Nice sound and playing, but what a horrible way to live.

my wife who doesnt play bass can tell that peter muller has his own spin and doesnt sound like a marcus clone.

 

[narud]

This has actually turned into a really nice thread.
Here's something about using the onboard preamp that I started doing recently.
I used to dial in the treble at about half and the bass at 1/3rd (Sadowsky pre) and then dial in the amp to that. Lately I'm just opening the pre with 10% treble and a little less than that on bass.That seems to make it a lot easier to get the sound out of my amp.I get the sizzle without harshness and I'm not loosing the punch that I need to cut through the mix.
I guess I should thought of that sooner.I was creating a smiley face curve with the bass and I don't like the way that sounds on amps so why would it be different with the bass.

this is one of the reasons i didnt really like the sad pre. when boosting it starts turning into a muddy indistinct mess. especially when going through a large pa. if i have onboard controls i want to be able to use them. the tct doesnt get out of control like that. neither doesn the nordstrand and coppolo pres that ive liked in the past. and now that ive been putting 2 band stingray pres in jazzes, ive found a new winner.

 

[gimmeagig]

I was going to let this one go....I swear I tried, but in the end I'm just too much of an *******.
I listened. I really wanted to find an angle where I was like "ok, he's doing the Marcus thing but he also has his own vibe goin as well"...
Nope. Carbon copy. Played well, mind you. Real well. Production= great. Players= great. Artistic integrity/originality= zero.
Come on man. Really?
I don't want to say much more, other than: can you imagine Patitucci, Haslip, Willis, Garrison, etc. etc. listeing to this guy? *** are they gonna say? "Wow this is great; never heard this before"?? They're gonna be like "Who's the Marcus wanna-be?"
I don't care if Marcus himself liked it; Marcus is
1. a millionaire
2. a musical legend who is probably flattered by imitation
3. started and is identified with that whole sound and vibe
4. only benefits from this kind of thing:
Someone hears Marcus copy on radio
"Honey I love the new Marcus CD"
Buys CD
Marcus profits
imitation guy gets nothing

Sorry. Nice sound and playing, but what a horrible way to live.

Here we go again, the Peter Muller bashing is starting. That's so awful and disrespectful to Peter. I's you had any ears at all you would not make a statement like that. You must be one hell of an artist to lay into Peter's work like that. And to imply that Marcus blows smoke up Peter's a*s because he's a millionaire and he profits indirectly from somebody copying him.What is wrong with you? Sorry I'm a little upset here.I'll calm down in a minute.
Funny I've never heard of you and there's nothing in your profile about your work other than that you teach in New York.Why don't you share with us what true originality and artistic integrity is all about and let us hear some examples of your playing? And tell us about the obviously amazing life you must be living while you're at it.
Anyway let's get back to analysing the "secret that's revealed" that was more fun......
Sorry about my rant

 

[gimmeagig]

this is one of the reasons i didnt really like the sad pre. when boosting it starts turning into a muddy indistinct mess. especially when going through a large pa. if i have onboard controls i want to be able to use them. the tct doesnt get out of control like that. neither doesn the nordstrand and coppolo pres that ive liked in the past. and now that ive been putting 2 band stingray pres in jazzes, ive found a new winner.

Can you buy the stingray pres as by themselves? I've been wondering about the sadowsky myself. I have a Modulus Jazz and a Moon bass, both of them have the Aguilar obp1 in it and I think I like it better. Unfotunately I chose to put the Sadowsky in both my 74 Jazz and my Atelier Z bass. I have a heavily modded KSD which has a Noll preamp in it.2 Band boost and cut. The thing I don't like about that one is that the blend pot has a really spongy feel to it.But it sounds very good.

 

[narud]

Can you buy the stingray pres as by themselves? I've been wondering about the sadowsky myself. I have a Modulus Jazz and a Moon bass, both of them have the Aguilar obp1 in it and I think I like it better. Unfotunately I chose to put the Sadowsky in both my 74 Jazz and my Atelier Z bass. I have a heavily modded KSD which has a Noll preamp in it.2 Band boost and cut. The thing I don't like about that one is that the blend pot has a really spongy feel to it.But it sounds very good.

over in the pickups forum, a tb'r made up the pcb's. you have to buy the resistors/caps/pots and build it up yourself. its not too tough if youre good with a soldering iron. for a novice like myself it takes me about 3 hours from assembling the board to having it installed in the bass. that pre really keeps the essence of the bass rather than making it sound super high tech. i really like it.

 

[gimmeagig]

my soldering skills are not too good.So I think I'll pass on that.I was just looking through my stuff and I found an old Bartolini TCT pre that I didn't know I still had.And an OBP3.
But overall I'm pretty happy with the Sadowsky as long as I remember to use the boost very sparingly. It's so easy to get caught up it the tone thing and I really should spend more time practicing. I recorded a few short clips for Avatar Speakers to put on youtube as a demo for their cabs. My Atelier Z through all of their different cabs and I actually was surprised at how much I liked the tone of my bass....my playing,now that's a different story so I'm going to leave that bass alone.
I recently tried out a set of Ultra jazz pickups in my 74 Jazz and while I liked them at first I'm going back to the Samarium Cobalt Noiseless pickups that I had in there before. Those together with the Sadowsky pre that's in that bass also were a nice combination , I should have left the bass alone.
Oh well,the endless search for the perfect tone...

 

[JAUQO III-X]

I was going to let this one go....I swear I tried, but in the end I'm just too much of an *******.
I listened. I really wanted to find an angle where I was like "ok, he's doing the Marcus thing but he also has his own vibe goin as well"...
Nope. Carbon copy. Played well, mind you. Real well. Production= great. Players= great. Artistic integrity/originality= zero.
Come on man. Really?
I don't want to say much more, other than: can you imagine Patitucci, Haslip, Willis, Garrison, etc. etc. listeing to this guy? *** are they gonna say? "Wow this is great; never heard this before"?? They're gonna be like "Who's the Marcus wanna-be?"
I don't care if Marcus himself liked it; Marcus is
1. a millionaire
2. a musical legend who is probably flattered by imitation
3. started and is identified with that whole sound and vibe
4. only benefits from this kind of thing:
Someone hears Marcus copy on radio
"Honey I love the new Marcus CD"
Buys CD
Marcus profits
imitation guy gets nothing

Sorry. Nice sound and playing, but what a horrible way to live.

You make it sound like I produced and engineered the recording.

 

[phillybass101]

Yep. He had one of the funniest album credits I've ever seen on Lenny's first solo project: "Weird bass: Marcus Miller". Granted he wasn't really doing anything other than goofing around, sliding on some of his strings.

There were other known bassists on the project but hey, Marcus had a credit too. He was also on Chaka Khan's "Naughty" alongside Anthony Jackson... pretty good company.

I remember his two lesser known albums. One of them had a song called Loving You that I used to like. He was bad even back then.

 

[phillybass101]

Can you buy the stingray pres as by themselves? I've been wondering about the sadowsky myself. I have a Modulus Jazz and a Moon bass, both of them have the Aguilar obp1 in it and I think I like it better. Unfotunately I chose to put the Sadowsky in both my 74 Jazz and my Atelier Z bass. I have a heavily modded KSD which has a Noll preamp in it.2 Band boost and cut. The thing I don't like about that one is that the blend pot has a really spongy feel to it.But it sounds very good.

SGD Luthiery makes a pre Ernie Ball preamp that I hear nails the 76 SR sound. He sells it for $110. Nordstrand also markets a 2 band MM preamp.

 

[phillybass101]

Depends on how you look at it I guess. Whenver I started to sound like someone else I stopped listening to them for awhile. Consequently I now sound like me. I learned this back when Stanley Clarke started getting big. If I had to clone someone it would have been Louis Johnson. To me, he never got the credit he was due. Muller does sound like Miller. I think his album is more of a tribute than him trying to be a Marcus Clone. People used to say Marcus sounded like Jaco when it comes to his fretless playing.

 

[narud]

SGD Luthiery makes a pre Ernie Ball preamp that I hear nails the 76 SR sound. He sells it for $110. Nordstrand also markets a 2 band MM preamp.

thats the same pre than many tbrs are making. its not that it nails the pre ernie sound. it is. someone reverse engineered the pre and drew up a schematic. unclefully in the pickups forum made up the pcb's.

 

[apcbassist]

Marcus miller would laugh at these posts!

 

[gimmeagig]

Marcus miller would laugh at these posts!

That's what I said earlier. It's fun though...Besides what else is there to do on a Friday night?